28-05-2003 13:04									#1
	Master Zen's anti-GoW Conspiracy Theory Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, it's 2:40 am here, and this horrible thought just entered my mind, in other words, of a world conspiracy against GoW-ND.

Here's how it works:

If we take out RP, basically the largest continent in the world is ours. This give both of us a tremendous ability to gear up for future campaigns, most notably in Little Bob, particularly against Gathering Storm. If we take out GS, only Lego would be left to offer any viable oposition to a GoW-ND world order.

How to stop that? Easy. Prevent it. When the RP war kicks in, we are at an extremely vulnerable position. As all our offensive might will be deployed south. Thus, there exists a possiblity of a counterattack by, yes, believe it or not, A Vox-GS alliance

A Vox-GS alliance?! Blasphemy! They are at war! A war that is most likely in a stalemate. Look at it this way, you are Vox you have a huge hoard of Immortals which will be slaughtered WW1-style attacking GS's walled Pikemen. Now, you are GS, you have a huge hoard of WC waiting to be upgraded and would rather spend your Golden Age building and getting a lead in science. Optimal solution? Peace, not war.

But then what to do with those troops? Use them againt something vulnerable, in other words, the weak underbelly of Bob: an undefended north and east.
Transit is easy: Vox is just an ocean square away. And GS built the Lighthouse which gives them access to sea squares and 4-movement galleys. They can land in a short time anywhere on the continent they wish. Another reason: balance of power. If RP is wiped out then Bob is ours. The geo-strategical situation now switches back to Bob instead of the bi-polarity which exists today: GS and Lego being the pre-eminent powers. Control of Bob by 2 civs is enought to turn the tide of this game considering that all resources are most likely found here.

Think about it, would we accept Vox losing to GS? Hell no, would they accept RP to fall too? I doubt it. I for one do not see this as an unlikely possibility if both Vox and GS see that their long-term objectives are easier to be found on Bob than on their own continent.

Solutions to this dilema:

1) Convince Vox once the RP starts that after we kick RP's ass, we will send our Riders (and perhaps ND's Ansars) to kick GS butt. Perhaps get it in writing as soon as the RP war begins.

2) Delay Chivalry as much as possible to GS. This involves keeping their trust in that we will sell it to them once we get it. For that reason during the turnchat me and Panzer had this turn I told him to start renaming our committed units as "Vox Mercenaries". Once they are delpoyed and visible to GS we should not only warn them of their mercenarial role but also make a public announcement of that.

3) Kick RP ass and kick it fast. The faster and more furious we strike, the less inclined they will be in considering action against us. "Shock and Awe" is the order of the day.


Ideas?



(btw, this is the first time I make an evil plan against myself )

	28-05-2003 17:41									#2
	Support Apolyton

Well, we definatly have to consider the possibilities. I was looking over a map of Little Bob a few days ago and realized that Vox has a mountain path to at least two cities. Why they aren't taking those ones, I do not know. I think a chat with Vox is in order to find out what they're doing.

	28-05-2003 18:06									#3
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Thus the reason why I suggested we consider turning on Vox, and aligning ourselves with GS.

Beta has told us that GS was encouraging them to land on Bob.
Vox caught them by surprise when they attacked true, but in all the one-on-one conversations they have had, GS has been calling us the Voxian puppets.
We have been been using Vox just to harass GS.

This was all in the chat log (which I cant find now)

I get the feeling from Beta, that they have suddenly realised they "have awaken a monster" and are in deep sh!t.

It's not hard to come to the conclusion that Vox may want to just get out of the war and do whatever GS bids.

So...do we go so far, as to offer our services to GS ?
Give them chivalry and try to align ourselves with them.

Beta says that GS want Voxian blood.
Vox caused them to lose their shield building city, start up their GA, and then waste it on a military build up.


We either do as you say MZ
Get Vox to hold on as best they can and wait for the RP war to finish, and then we devote 100% of our attention on eliminating GS. But this is a long time to wait. We are 12? turns from Chivalry. And dont underestimate RP...they will have pikes and will fight it out to the bitter end.

Or do we align with GS, and hasten Vox's destruction.
Remember we have some excellent information we can feed to GS...
RP was committing troops
Lego was financing Vox upgrades.
We are (as GF put it) the runts of Bob. The second last team. Surely we could convince them to divert their attentions to Lego ??

	28-05-2003 18:08									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just another quick thought....

Did ND stop our iron intentionally ?
On the next turn...we may find our partners lined up along our border !!!!

MZ - we need that iron back

	29-05-2003 20:41									#5
	Got spare money?

I agree with HE on considering betrayal of Vox...

	30-05-2003 08:14									#6
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Things get more interesting now that Lego has Feud.

Basically there are two possible sellers: RP and Vox. RP might have sold it to them since they need the $$. However, Vox owes them money so perhaps they gave it as a payback gift.

	30-05-2003 08:53									#7
	Got spare money?

If it is Vox...and it sounds likely... then perhaps it is payback for us selling their engineering (if we ever get it) to ND...they weren't happay about that.

	30-05-2003 09:57									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel If it is Vox...and it sounds likely... then perhaps it is payback for us selling their engineering (if we ever get it) to ND...they weren't happay about that.

That's why don't believe we should hardball everyone everytime. This might work on the short-term but we risk establishing grudges in the future. If the entere world thinks that they've been screwed by GoW I honestly don't see how we can make any secure alliances with anyone other than ND.

	30-05-2003 11:03									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yep - I agree....

	02-06-2003 05:09									#10
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I am in a PBEM with beta...(trying to negotiate a tech alliance with him)

In our emails...I have casually asked TWICE how is the war going and when does he expect Engineering to be complete.

He has ignored my question both times.

I want our team to seriously consider that
1. Vox has stopped studying or is not going to sell Engineering to us.
2. That they have come to an "arrangement" with GS, and we can expect an invasion of immortals on our shore very soon.

Master Zen .. Can you contact Beta with an official GoW request for an ETA for Engineering ? Also that our shipment of units are on their way, and where they would like them placed.

I dont mind doing it ... its just that my "casual" conversations with Beta has always been non-official one-liners.

Let me know.

	02-06-2003 05:17									#11
	Suffering from ads?

interesting theory. Remember everyone in thig game is out to win, so this might occur in one form or another. I seriously doubt we would be able to exercise our evil plan 2.0 without someone trying to resist being treated as a pawn.

My biggest advice: dont trust ND completely. It seems as our team relies too much on ND to back their words. But most of you may just put off my advice as just another ex-luxian that has bias agst ND.

	02-06-2003 06:47									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Zero interesting theory. Remember everyone in thig game is out to win, so this might occur in one form or another. I seriously doubt we would be able to exercise our evil plan 2.0 without someone trying to resist being treated as a pawn. My biggest advice: dont trust ND completely. It seems as our team relies too much on ND to back their words. But most of you may just put off my advice as just another ex-luxian that has bias agst ND.

We have put too much effort in our relations with ND to disblieve that they wont go through with the RP offensive.

They have shown us confidential correspondence from RP. And they have been true to their word when we co-odinated our offensive against Lux.

However... very early in the negotiation stage with ND, we had a variety of evil plans on when and how to backstab ND. Likewise...I am sure they will be eyeing us off once RP is finished.

As the RP war concludes...we will then have to reaccess our relationship with ND. We may need to trust them longer when we deal with the giants of GS & Lego...or we may decide to backstab them early, and make a huge land grab for all of Bob.

A lot still needs to be discussed....

	03-06-2003 21:53									#13
	Got spare money?

I believe we should cooperate with ND even further down the road after the RP war. Think about it, a war for Bob will only weaken us, even the victor, and that will only make the "fringe powers", Lego and GS even stronger.

Remember, Bob is like Europe while the GS and Lego are like the US and Russia. As long as we get into trouble in Bob, they get stronger. Once RP is out of the picture, I think we should ally ND to take them out and only in the end, say when we and Vox are still around, fight it out.

(btw, is it true that an allied victory is possible in PBEMs?)