29-05-2003 09:32									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Asher This is so stupid, ATI gets equivalent performance boosts by the same methods. All graphics cards makers do it, all have done it, and all will still do it. It only makes sense to optimize your drivers so the benchmarks are higher for you. I'm completely dumbfounded why the headlines say "Nvidia gets caught cheating", when ATi was "busted" as well (and even more dumbfounded that people are surprised??)

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen It's not that it's illegal or not, just that it is misleading the customer about the card's capabilities. It may be technically fair and square but it's just wrong. I would not have much faith or loyalty to a company which does that.

The most relevant posts on this thread. All hardware benchmarks from manufacturers are kinked, rounded, and cannot be depended on.

FAR better idea to get independent benchmarks from magazines and/or websites. HOWEVER, these are done with limited resources, and should not be considered as more than guidelines - generally more accurate than the manufacturer's but still not infallible.

In the UK, direct advertising that compares your products to your competitors is BANNED. One consumer law I think a lot of countries should consider adopting.

	29-05-2003 11:40									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So you're not going to buy from ATI or Nvidia? Good luck with that.

When did I say that? I'm not too fond of nVidia, after this little stunt much less. If both of them lie with their benchmarks so be it, I hate nVidia for not supporting the 3dfx cards after the sellout. To me that just goes to show how little they care about their customers.

	29-05-2003 18:03									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen When did I say that? I'm not too fond of nVidia, after this little stunt much less. If both of them lie with their benchmarks so be it, I hate nVidia for not supporting the 3dfx cards after the sellout. To me that just goes to show how little they care about their customers.

Because ATI does the same thing, and no doubt S3, Matrox, SiS, etc. also do the same thing.

Don't you remember ATI getting "busted" for cheating a year or two ago? A simple replacement of "quake" with "quack" in their drivers drastically dropped performance. Why do you think that is?

BTW, Nvidia didn't support the 3dfx cards because Nvidia doesn't have a tech support department and only required 3dfx's IP and engineers. They don't make boards, they don't support boards. All they do is design little chips and contract them out. Their customers are board manufacturers.

	29-05-2003 18:07									#34
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ATI cards are utterly terrible. As for nVidia, I don't really care about what a company does during some stupid tests that don't have any bearing on whether or not I make a purchase. I like nVidia cards, specifically GeForce chipset, due to experience. I've tried both Voodoo and their GeForce equivalents. And for all the games I play, all the other applications I use, GeForce is the way to go.

	30-05-2003 00:26									#35
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Funny Sava you should say that. I provided tests that show ATI cards are far more better than Nvidia. The performance gap between each shows that ATI is obviously the better card out there. So you are full of nonsense.

	30-05-2003 00:35									#36
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Fez: You provide no proof, You PROVIDE NOTHING! You want to destroy Nvidia... you criminal!

	30-05-2003 00:39									#37
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***hole. I provided the link a page ago.

Now shut the **** up.

	30-05-2003 01:05									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

When it's that easy, it takes some of the fun out of it, don't you think?

	30-05-2003 01:27									#40
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I hate it when people plagiarize statements I have made. It pisses me off completely. Now get something original. Till then, shut the **** up.

	30-05-2003 01:54									#41
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I love it when people plagiarize statements you make. It really pleases me. Please don't get anything more original. Till then, keep it up.

	30-05-2003 02:04									#42
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Imran

Sorry, Fez. I think you should take it in good humor. We're not laughing AT you, you know.

	30-05-2003 02:13									#43
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I love it when people plagiarize statements you make. It really pleases me. Please don't get anything more original. Till then, keep it up.

Then again, probably I should speak only for myself.

	30-05-2003 02:21									#44
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I'm not laughing at him either.

	30-05-2003 02:24									#45
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Ooooookay, whatever. nVidia rules, ATI sucks, good night, I want to get some sleep.

	30-05-2003 02:31									#46
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quote: nVidia rules, ATI sucks

They both suck, but you've gotta use one of them.

This thread is **** anyway.

	30-05-2003 02:34									#47
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Amen, brother.

	30-05-2003 03:04									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen VIVA RADEON!!! (I've hated nVidia to death ever since they took over 3dfx and stopped supporting it, just when win XP came out. Now I have to play all my Glide games in a dual-booted win 98.)

Zen, ditto. I have bought Radeon ever since. I now have Radeon's top product, a bit expensive, but it works like a charm. Makes playing PC games a real blast just as did Glide did at one time.

BTW, I finally played Ghost Recon last weekend. What a game! It's a kind of FPS, but you control a three-squad platoon of eight in very realistic US Army special forces ops.

For those of you who like sniper weapons in FPS, this game is filled with good sniper shooting situations.

	30-05-2003 03:39									#49
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Sheesh.. I provide test results.. and they are ignored and I am still referred as an idiot.. is it my avatar for goodness sakes? I am getting tired of this...

Radeon is the best at this time.... they have took a key advantage and seized it. Nvidia was defeated for now at least.

Hey ned, try out Vietcong... I already talked about it but it is awesome... extremely realistic... it only takes two shots to get killed in that game on normal mode.

	30-05-2003 03:49									#50
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Sorry to burst your bubble Fez, but the benchmarks you provided are not for the fastest cards.

Why don't you look at NV35 vs R350, and do something useful.

In particular, the DOOM3 benchmarks are interesting: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=22

GeForce FX 5900 Ultra: 104fps
Radeon 9800 Pro: 77fps

Or Splinter Cell: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=25
GeForce FX 5900 Ultra: 48fps
Radeon 9800 Pro: 25fps

	30-05-2003 03:49									#51
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quote: When it's that easy, it takes some of the fun out of it, don't you think?

No, not really... the next three or four posts literally had me LMAO!

	30-05-2003 03:53									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Sorry to burst your bubble Fez, but the benchmarks you provided are not for the fastest cards. Why don't you look at NV35 vs R350, and do something useful. In particular, the DOOM3 benchmarks are interesting: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1821&p=22 GeForce FX 5900 Ultra: 104fps Radeon 9800 Pro: 77fps

None taken.. the 5900 is the newest card.. but I think that is a little bit out of my price range.

I am looking at the FX 5600, 5800.. and ATI 9500 and 9700 right now.

These are mid range cards... I wasn't comparing high range ones.

Also ATI will have something new out.

But don't turn this into one of those useless Intel versus AMD type of threads.. I am not up for that. Nor do I have the patience nor temper. I have my opinions you have yours.

And don't you ever tell me to do something useful, you nitwit.

	30-05-2003 03:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: When it's that easy, it takes some of the fun out of it, don't you think? No, not really... the next three or four posts literally had me LMAO!

unbelievable isn't it .

	30-05-2003 03:54									#54
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There's no need for an Intel vs AMD thread, Fez, everyone in the world but you concedes that AMD is rather pathetic right now.

The "Athlon XP 3200+" performs like a 2.6-2.8GHz P4.

Down with AMD's criminal performance ratings.

	30-05-2003 03:56									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Fez nor temper. I And don't you ever tell me to do something useful, you nitwit.

All together now...."Ashers a nitwit"lol:

You really know how to insult a person Fez

	30-05-2003 03:57									#56
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This is what I mean.. you are so biased, you have your own head up your @$$.

Down with you and your insanity. If AMD wasn't around, CPU $$$$ would be sky high.

	30-05-2003 04:02									#57
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I Fez

	30-05-2003 04:07									#58
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Fez, I will give Vietcong a shot. But it will have to do something to equal Ghost Recon, which is by far the most intense and exciting game I have ever played. Here is a bit of the review from Gamespot:

"Although the mission was a failure, the experience was intense in the extreme. The sound of bullets whizzing overhead, the sight of a squad crouching behind a rock and unleashing a hail of cover fire, the image of an enemy being blown off his feet by a grenade--it all added up to one of the most visceral first-person combat experiences you can imagine. Players in search of speed and frantic shooting probably might not care for the realism that lies at the heart of this game, but take our word for it: When the tension and apprehension of approaching an enemy stronghold is shattered by eruptions of gunfire and the sounds of violent explosions, you might find yourself literally jumping out of your seat."

	30-05-2003 04:07									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Fez This is what I mean.. you are so biased, you have your own head up your @$$.

Yesyes, I am the one that's biased.

It's just my biased viewpoint that makes the Athlon slow around the world, in reality it's much faster. Damn me.

	30-05-2003 04:22									#60
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Hey Ashboy, do something with that cute boyfriend of yours... I am tonight with my SO.. he is eating Chinese take out food here in my room..

Ned.. this one is based in Vietnam of course... and here is a review from gamespot:

quote: Enemy forces, meanwhile, will always fight from behind cover, and they do a fine job of making themselves difficult to spot. They are tenacious and tend to have superior numbers, and they seem more brave than foolhardy. They'll retreat if injured and will keep their heads down when under fire. Realistic tactics work against them. When the rest of your squad is pinned down by embedded VC forces, often you can take the initiative and flank the enemy, catching them completely off guard for a satisfying victory. At other times, you'll be caught off guard yourself, either by enemy fire or by booby traps. Vietcong uses a combination of sporadic autosave checkpoints and a limited save system to strike a good balance between letting you save your progress as necessary but not allowing you to abuse a save-anywhere feature, which would make the shooting sequences trivial. In another testament to the game's AI, when you do end up replaying certain battles, you'll notice that they play out differently on successive attempts--the enemy behavior isn't just scripted.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/vietcong/review.html

The enemy I always noticed are smart little buggers.. I get shot up with AK-47 rounds if I do something wrong.. not to mention the various other Russian/Chinese weapons they have.