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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:28
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The modern day Don Quixote
I suppose every one has heard of their favourite man of La Mancha, and his faithful sidekick, Sancho Panza. Do we not all chuckle at the foibles of Don Quixote: tolling at windmills, and even imagining the local inn as a respendent castle, with stone battlements and crenallated ramparts? Do we not all laugh when he expresses his love for his noble lady, a simple peasant serving the inn?
Whereas Don Quixote is the dreamer, what about Panza? He represents the firm realist for whom everything is as it is perceived, that the eye indeed sees the truth. What is a windmill but a windmill or an inn an inn? Nothing can be more than the senses, which after all cannot lie.
This is the most fundamental difference between the prolifer and a prochoicer; the prolifer is a dreamer chained to an ideal, while the prochoicer is a realist, grounded to pragmatism.
Yes, your view is wider, through the perspective of the eyes, but it is far more narrower from the perspective of the soul. Is it not the dreamers who inspire while the realists are exposed? Who would have imagined travelling to the moon, or communicating to anywhere in the world in a matter of seconds? Any who suggested these ideas 200 years ago would have been a dreamer, or worse, a possessed madman.
So as it was, so it is today. Like Don Quixote, prolifers defend ideals that many have forgotten, discarded and rejected. We see the unborn as a living person, equal in dignity and worth to her far more physically substantial mother. We see all persons as intrinsically valuable, regardless of their current capacities. Is that not like Quixote; do we not see what our eyes tell us does not exist?
I just have one more question, to curtail the length of this exposition. If we laugh at Quixote, is not the joke on ourselves? For who does not desire a world of romance, of honour of wonders yet to come? While many hinder Quixote, few reject his views outright. Rather than expressing them with such embarrassing passion, he should restrain himself. We all should dream quietly, as not to offend those with smaller dreams.
"We are the magic makers
And the dreamers of dreams
Wand'ring by lone sea breakers
And sitting by desolate streams
World losers and world forsakers
On whom the pale moon gleams
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world forever it seems."
-Arthur O'Shaughnessy
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Jon Miller
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a girl I know has had many many terrible things happen to her in her life, worse than being born disabled or some of the other extreme arguments I have heard from prochiocers
she is happy right now and is glad to be alive, despite the pain she went through
the whole pain thing is a lie, so that prochoicers don't see the truth in their selfishness
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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those people are screwed up (and few in prolifer circles)
prochoicers are selfish, for some it is just subconcoiusly
Jon Miller
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Jon Miller
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the people who I here about getting abortions
get abortions because they don't want a baby screwing up their life
killing someone else so that your life is easier, is selfish
life (especially human life) is special
Jon Miller
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Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
the people who I here about getting abortions
get abortions because they don't want a baby screwing up their life
killing someone else so that your life is easier, is selfish
life (especially human life) is special
Jon Miller |
That's interesting, Jon.
So people who use condoms and birth-control pills are also selfish, since they are actively preventing the life in the same way that abortion happens. The difference is, your religion finds it convenient to ignore contraceptives and just concentrate on abortion. The net effect is the same, if you think about it.
Also, have you considered the people who agonized over the decision, but decided that the child could not be provided for adequately? Like a teenage mother who is in school, working to support her family, and in an abusive relationship? Or how about the mothers with HIV? Would you like to give birth to a child with HIV?
If anyone's being selfish, it'd be the people who demand everyone else abide by their beliefs and their morals.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:28
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quote:
Sorry, but it hadn't me convinced at all
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A bit of background, this is a copy of a letter I wrote in response to a hostile letter. By the tone of their letter I knew there was no way I would convince them, so this is what I wrote. It's not much of an argument, it's something much different, a comparison, an analogy.
Now what I really want to hear is do people consider the comparison valid? Is there a bit of truth in these words?
MtG
quote:
I'm opposed to abortion, but I'm also opposed to state power being used to enforce reproductive choices,
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The situation is quite different in the US than from Canada. In Canada, we have full government support for abortions, abortions are funded by the medical system. In a very real sense, all taxpayers are coerced to fund abortions.
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It means I favor limits on the state's ability to impose itself into matters of personal morality.
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Indeed. Does the state stay out of the bedrooms of the nation when it's a child being abused? If not, then why?
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unless there's enough fetal development to realistically assert a protective interest.
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That's a curious response. Why the qualifier,
'realistically'? An embryo may look very different from the way we do, but since when have we based personhood on the way things look, and not on what they are?
Tuberski:
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Could we please use " pro-lifer?
I keep reading it profiler!
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Can you understand my sig? 
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
That's interesting, Jon.
Also, have you considered the people who agonized over the decision, but decided that the child could not be provided for adequately? Like a teenage mother who is in school, working to support her family, and in an abusive relationship? Or how about the mothers with HIV? Would you like to give birth to a child with HIV?
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yes
as I said
I know people who have had (especially growing up) terrible lives as a result of their birth (the family they were born into)
but all I know, are glad to be alive
I don't want to go into details (because that is private, between me and them), but stuff so horrid that I wish I could forget
Jon Miller
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29-05-2003 08:09
Or a parasite. 
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