29-05-2003 14:00									#1
	One Tech Per Turn in Fundy Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I am just playing a great game - I have conquered nearly the whole world on a 125x80 map with 7 civs in deity.
I owe about 150 cities. My enemies forced me to switch to Fundy. I have built all the happy making wonders including CfC and rushed market places and banks in nearly all cities. I trade like an idiot - the bigger cities have an airport and superhighways, too - so that I make a tech per turn
I discovered space flight in 1911 after a period of 300 years of Fundamentalism.
What makes me laugh is the fact that the demographics windows says that the Sioux have an income of over 50000 per inhabitant. The last Sioux city has size of 4, no city improvements - I destroyed them all - and no defender.
Before I switched back to demo, I made more than 5000 gold cash per turn, freight bonusses excluded. Nearly all my cities celebrated.
I wouldn't have believed that: One tech per turn in Fundy.

	29-05-2003 16:23									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

A tech a turn is easy in Fundy with a large empire. One of the major flaws in the game is that whilst science is halved from ordinary research the beakers gained from trade are not modified in the same fashion. With a fundy civilisation celebrating (30% lux rate should do it - set science to 0% and only employ one specialist in science) the trading returns are equal to those under Democracy as there is no corruption. Better still there is no wastage of shields for supported units.

-------------------------

SG(2)

	29-05-2003 17:29									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Once your civ is that large, it really doesn't matter what you do, the AI is toast, and you're just going through the motions. Thank god for MP.

	29-05-2003 20:40									#4
	Suffering from ads?

agreed rah...that was the biggest drawback to this game.....once you establish yourself with 50+ ciites, some maps it can be more.....you either have the trading power, the military might, or the tech lead which just cannot be over come by the plodding ai......

MP is another story....but does follow this patter to some degree if your opponents cannot keep close in expansion

	30-05-2003 01:40									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

True enough... We've seen the Despotism challange with records that are unbelievable.

Yeah... Fundy works... but so does everything else. If you know what are you doing, you can kill the AI on any settings.

Yes... thank god for MP

	30-05-2003 03:10									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

most video games are pattern based.... once you learn the pattern , the ai can never keep pace.....

sad but true, that is why pinball is always better for replay value...

even if you learn how to make the shots, its always a game of feel......

	30-05-2003 11:52									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You will love the pinball machine I have when you visit next week

	30-05-2003 20:48									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i love pinball..used to be good at a bunch of them....yeah i am looking forward to checking your pinball machine out.......

in the old days, i could play video games like pacman, donkey kong, galaga, etc for hours on end...robotron, joust...all the old games b/c they were so easy to beat..

now i am old and little kids whup me at WWE wrestling

	31-05-2003 07:49									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

The problem with fundy is that you can only get 1 tech/turn with Freight (Freight makes it pretty easy, really). To get 2 techs/turn, you'll need a lot of beaker output from cities, and that's where fundy lets you down.

Now, in Demo, I think I once got 4 techs in a turn... but don't quote me, it might have been 3.

	31-05-2003 13:03									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Against the AI... one tech per turn is more than adequate to kick their butts Unless you are going for a record, it really doesn't matter.

	31-05-2003 20:58									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Now, in Demo, I think I once got 4 techs in a turn... but don't quote me, it might have been 3.

i decided to pull up one of my old (first) diety games when i used to completely ignore science to keep the AI from using science as well. I revamped that save from the celebrating, capitalistic democracy to a research democracy

numbers: 1887AD
115 cities (57 libraries and 14 universities)
researching automobile (63 techs)
37 active freights
1024/2112 beakers accumulated
7561 beakers per turn

even with the complete lack research facilities
1 library per 2 cities
1 university per 10 cities
no concept of research labs or superhighways, and Cope's in enemy hands
Ike's city having 0 trade routes, no trade specials or even sea spaces, and no university

that civ is going to made 4 discoveries this turn if the freight is delivered. just for fun i went into cheat mode and bought libraries and universities for each city and it bumped it up to 10979 beakers per turn - means we can get 5 techs per turn after freight deliveries (37 freights had better result in payoff >1200 as most of the large cities are reachable in 1 turn by railroad)

with that on 115 cities and the city max at more than 2x that, plus getting superhighways, SETI and more trade routes, and more roads in the newer cities, with a little fiddling around, i would guess 8-10 techs in a single turn would be well within reach for those who have the time, patience, desire and lack of sanity to want to try it

	31-05-2003 21:46									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

@SCG
...for those who have the time, patience, desire and lack of sanity to want to try it ...

So you mean all those guys here in this forum?

	01-06-2003 00:33									#13
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by SCG with that on 115 cities and the city max at more than 2x that, plus getting superhighways, SETI and more trade routes, and more roads in the newer cities, with a little fiddling around, i would guess 8-10 techs in a single turn would be well within reach for those who have the time, patience, desire and lack of sanity to want to try it

I suppose the trick to setting a 'record' for # of techs in a turn would be: acquire enough techs to allow massive growth (sanitation, democracy, etc), then set science to 0 and stop trading for several turns with lux at 80 for growth purposes. Gift all your techs to the key civ, of course, and gift RR, sanitation, rep or demo, and explosives to the AI so their cities will get huge as well. Wait until you get to the point where the key civ is ahead of you in techs, and then jack up the science rate, deliver the freight, then Xin cities with Einsteins, etc.

8-10 techs, easy... but then, as you say, what would be the point

	01-06-2003 00:48									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

Incidentally, ramses... have you tried the no-limits patches? Are you playing MGE, 2.42 or ToT? I've found that when playing ToT on a 180x180 large land mass map, at least 2 or 3 AI cities can be counted on to build 40+ cities. And on a map that size, it's hard to overrun them all before they get to that point

Just a suggestion... if you like huge civs, the 125x80 map can be a bit... cramped

	01-06-2003 10:48									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

@STYOM
Civ 2.4.2, but I've got the others, too. I was very disappointed about Civ III.
I think 125x80 is large enough for 254 cities, but I've also tried bigger maps.