30-05-2003 03:50									#1
	Turn 62 Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching map making at 100% (5t to go)
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- 85 gold cash, -2 gpt

Urgent questions & tasks:
FAM: Negotiations with CDG: NAP & border combo. In process.
MoI: build in Tripoli - what shall we switch to? no walls, please...

Unit movement & actions:
N1 'MerZenary' fortified
N2 'Mao' moves SW (1)
W2 'BigFree' to move N (8)
W3 'Alva' to move S (2)
W4 'Theseus' to skip turn
W5 'BFW' to move N (8)?? (no need to stick there any more...)
W6 'Hagbart' fortified in Tripoli
W7 'WhiteBandit' to skip turn
W8 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton
W9 to be named 'PanzerWarrior' and move NW (7)

Economy:
Apolyton building merc
Mingapulco building warrior
Banatopia building granary
Incensity building merc
Tripoli building walls. MoI: What do we switch to??

WF: See this [URLblank]blank[/URL] for WF placements
Apolyton: 4-5-12-17 ?? 4-13-17-18
Mingapulco: 2-3-10 no change
Bananatopia: 1-2 ?? 2-19
Incensity: 5-14 no change
Tripoli: 2 no change

Workers
Worker1 'Dan' clearing jungle (11)
Worker2 'Monkee' to start a mine (3)
Worker3 'panag' to move NE (9) ??
Worker4 'EVC' mining (5)


Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP expired. Talking about renewal - draft in works. Tech Trade in efffect -- Mapmaking for Philosophy + Math. Voided if they do not get tech by 83.
GCA: NAP in effect Turn 59. Tech trade in effect Map Making and Horseback Riding for Polytheism and Mysticism
CFC: NAP in effect (to Turn 83).

Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

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Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results.

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Last edited by Togas on 30-05-2003 at 21:52

	30-05-2003 05:39									#2
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Map Making for Math and Philo from CDG is still on.

	30-05-2003 07:28									#3
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Based on the turn 61 discussion, it would seem that an NM is the best option for Tripoli unless E_T has some other more specific plan for that city.

EDIT: 12 turns until an NM can be built there, and a Barracks would take 17, until the day that the city grows in pop. Unless we're willing to wait all that time for Vet Warriors, then an NM would still seem better.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 30-05-2003 at 07:34

	30-05-2003 08:02									#4
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I have Tripoli set to build a walls, then Warrior (just before the Iron is connected), then an NM and then a worker.

One thing that NYE was concerned with, was the number of Regular Units that is being created "not wanting to support them" after going to Republic was one of his concerns.

One of the other reasons, it will still be a bit before I can have some jungle cleared to let the city grow at a decent rate and support the extra Pop. A Wall is a good enough of a build for now to have and it's useful too, as it will be at size 6 until it builds an Aquaduct.

Unfortunenately, I don't have time to poll in this right now, but I'll put one up soon in a few days.

MoI E_T

	30-05-2003 08:05									#5
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Or, If you really must change it to something, do 2 warriors...

E_T

	30-05-2003 10:13									#6
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No walls in Tripoli! :doitnow:

It's a waste of shields. Tripoli, with proper jungle clearing can put up some good production number's fairly soon. In my scenario I built a Barracks there first followed by constant build of Swords/NM's. This worked out very well. Yoou can't just look at what Tripoli's output will be for the next 10 turns you vane to consider 30 even 40 turns down the road, then you will see that a Barracks is justified.

	30-05-2003 11:17									#7
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My vote would be anything but walls.

Barracks

	30-05-2003 11:59									#8
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I'd be happy to pop the poll up, but I don't know how to set one up. Someone send me a PM that explains it real slow? End of the teaching year here, and my brain is moving in fits and starts.


Second thought: Can we/should we back research off to the point of not losing money? We are trying to save up to upgrade some warriors, after all. Or will the turns saved by running at a deficit *definitely* be made up by the bonus commerce of extra turns in Republic? Seems like we ought to be able to check this precisely, but I'm thinking that with the amount of time until Republic anyhow, maybe we ought to scale back research slightly and save some cash?

	30-05-2003 13:43									#9
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Poll has been posted.

F-P: it's fairly simple: you select "new thread", type the message, and then in the lower part of the page, select "Yes! Include a poll". You then get to select the number of options, etc.

	30-05-2003 19:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree Map Making for Math and Philo from CDG is still on.

Any idea how long it will take them to get Math and Philo, beyond the 35 turns estimated a week or so ago?
Could Foreign Affairs maybe get an update on the time?

Looking to the (not so far!) future here, when we get close to Republic, we need to know when to start turning up the heat with Warrior production. Everything is moving comfortably ATM, but it could be that the trade is managed well within 30 days, and then we should only have Republic to get before satisfying one of our criteria to start the war! All we will need once MapMaking and that trade is done are CoL and then we can start on Republic. We could be fulfilling the AltSp within 40 days.....

	30-05-2003 22:14									#11
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I strongly urge us to build at least 1 galley, hopefully two. We could very well be the first nation to mapmaking, the first to make contact, and the techwhore opportunities from such are priceless.

Furthermore, I am beginning to believe that CFC has a secret contact and that their "research" is tech they are aquiring from foreign sources, or techs they have agreed to research with a party that isn't a part of our eastern tech triangle.

--Togas

	30-05-2003 22:17									#12
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Finally! More voices that cry out for the High Seas...

The Science Advisor (for what he's worth) says we're pretty advanced, so you're probably right on the MapMaking.

	31-05-2003 03:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Any idea how long it will take them to get Math and Philo, beyond the 35 turns estimated a week or so ago? Could Foreign Affairs maybe get an update on the time?

The only thing I can report on that is what they told me; which is everythning is on shedule. So we are to expect those Techs within the time frame allotted by the agreement. The agreemnt says thetechs are to be offered 25 turns from turn 57 which is turn 82. It is now turn 62, so they have 20 turns to go.

I will try to get an estimate from them and I will provide one from us for our techs. We are 6 turns from MM. Sound good to you Togas?

	31-05-2003 03:22									#14
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Let's give them a "rough estimate" of 5-8 turns.

--Togas

	31-05-2003 03:46									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Togas I strongly urge us to build at least 1 galley, hopefully two. We could very well be the first nation to mapmaking, the first to make contact, and the techwhore opportunities from such are priceless. Furthermore, I am beginning to believe that CFC has a secret contact and that their "research" is tech they are aquiring from foreign sources, or techs they have agreed to research with a party that isn't a part of our eastern tech triangle. --Togas

The German connection, I'm tellin' ya....

	31-05-2003 03:50									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Let's give them a "rough estimate" of 5-8 turns. --Togas

Good idea. We are going to have to slow research soon. Unless we want to fall below the amount needed for a couple of quick swords. That would be a very bad idea, in my book.

Actually, given that we will be at the low end of average vs CDG with the next 2 mercs, I would like to increase our gold cushion to 120, enough for 3 quick swords. We should have 25 from a barb camp PDQ, that would leave 15 or so needed.

	31-05-2003 06:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Furthermore, I am beginning to believe that CFC has a secret contact and that their "research" is tech they are aquiring from foreign sources, or techs they have agreed to research with a party that isn't a part of our eastern tech triangle. --Togas

Didn't I tell you so.....

* E_T grumbles that no one listens to him.....

[EDIT] Another good reason to send the first galley to the north and west [/edit]

quote: Originally posted by Togas Let's give them a "rough estimate" of 5-8 turns. --Togas

Let's wait until the 8 turn time to make the trade. I would like to have MM for a couple of turns before we sell it. This might make them waste a few sheilds if they are prebuilding a Galley somewere (or who they will trade it with)

MoI E_T

	31-05-2003 06:26									#18
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Good idea. We are going to have to slow research soon. Unless we want to fall below the amount needed for a couple of quick swords. That would be a very bad idea, in my book. Actually, given that we will be at the low end of average vs CDG with the next 2 mercs, I would like to increase our gold cushion to 120, enough for 3 quick swords. We should have 25 from a barb camp PDQ, that would leave 15 or so needed.

I would actually like to get a 160 Gold reserve for 4 quick upgrades. Also have our % set to upgrade 1 per 10 turns (+4GPT). But that will delay Republic a bit... But then it will do the AltSP no good if we go to war and don't have the funds to upgrade everything.

MoI E_T

	31-05-2003 08:09									#19
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Agreed, E_T. However, if we run at break even from here on out (small surplus for a few turns) barb camps should top us up nicely. We currently have 2 hunts going.

In testing it was pretty consistent that a new camp would appear as soon as an existing one was popped. We're getting them a bit faster in the real game.

	31-05-2003 08:09									#20
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Status:

CDG WMorris is on the Knob (the lone mountain SE of Mingapulco)

No barbs in sight.

CDG borders expanded. WWhiteBandit in now adjacent to Elucidium's border. Will need to adjust screen. Would have to anyway, since a road is being built behind WWhiteBandit and he could not escape immortals crossing the river once it is finished (without moving away from us and where he wants to be.

Elucidium grew to 4.

Goats shrank from pop 3 to pop 1. Actually, this happened last turn (1500).

MilAdvisor says we are weak vs CDG and GCA. Average vs CFC.

We have 85 gold. MapMaking in 5. Running -2 defecit (-3 as of start of next turn).

	31-05-2003 09:07									#21
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Actions:
N1 'MerZenary' scoots to Mingapulco and fortifies.
W3 'Alva' move S (2)
N2 'Mao' moves SW (1)
W2 'BigFree' moves N (8). Fortified spear in Elucidium.
W4 'Theseus' skips turn.
W7 'WhiteBandit' moves N (8). Time to get the screen on the right side of the road that is about to complete.
W5 'BFW' moves N (8)
W6 'Hagbart' fortified in Tripoli
W8 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton
W9 named 'PanzerWarrior' moves N (8). Estruscan (sic) camp 8 8 on plains with 1 warrior garrison.

Economy:
Apolyton building merc
Mingapulco building warrior
Banatopia building granary
Incensity building merc
Tripoli building walls. Changed to merc (11)

WF:
Apolyton: changed to 4-13-17-18
Mingapulco: 2-3-10 no change
Bananatopia: 2-19 no change
Incensity: 5-14 no change
Tripoli: 2 no change

Workers
Worker1 'Dan' clearing jungle (11)
Worker2 'Monkee' starts mine (3)
Worker3 'panag' moves NE (9)
Worker4 'EVC' mining (5)

	31-05-2003 12:52									#23
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We got a bonus grassland tile out of that just cleared forrest tile near Banatopia. Hurrah!

ET should like that.

	31-05-2003 14:55									#24
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I guess that settler out of Goats will head North to the Dyes they can see. They will get themselves the (pretty much useless) extra Dyes and further their claim on the propsed boundary. It might well be their method of putting the screws to us by denying us the Dyes there and forcing us to agree to a border before they spread all over that jungle that we want so badly.

	31-05-2003 20:15									#25
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I think the settler will be heading to Goldville's location,actually. They did build a road there, after all.

	31-05-2003 21:56									#26
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My guess is that they're heading for the hill north of the gold.

Let them build their jungle cities... once we get Republic they'll be no match for us...

	31-05-2003 22:35									#27
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree We got a bonus grassland tile out of that just cleared forrest tile near Banatopia. Hurrah! ET should like that.

Yes, it makes me very happy... Especially makes things build just a bit faster.....

I plan for no bonus and hope that I can get a bonus....

E_T

	31-05-2003 22:47									#28
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It will also allow me to get 1 addition worker from Banana much sooner.....

E_T

	01-06-2003 07:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon I think the settler will be heading to Goldville's location,actually. They did build a road there, after all.

Ah. Good point. I agree.

* MrWhereItsAt can't wait to get home and look at the save again!

	01-06-2003 07:54									#30
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My $5 is down on the jungle 7 of Gold Hill.