30-05-2003 19:34									#1
	Pop-Rushing Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm not very experienced in this field, so I'll pose it as a question: under which circumstances do we want to pop-rush production?
We seem to be rather well-placed in the luxuries department with Incense and (soon) Dyes, and we might want to prepare for the upcoming war in this way before we are a Republic.

Thoughts..?

	30-05-2003 19:51									#2
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We will only want to poprush where it will take one citizen to rush something - two leaves you with nasty happiness effects for longer, but with our limited population size and lux, this may not be an issue - not sure myself, have rarely poprushed and almost never rushed with two citizens.

Poprushing seems to work best with Barracks or Granaries or Temples - those early buildings where you shave off half (or more) of the build time, and they pay off dividends in the future the earlier you get them.

That's about the extent of my poprushing knowledge. Can any advanced strategist help out here?

EDIT: Argh. There is no single thread I can find in the Strat forum on rushing. Time someone who actually knew enough about it started one. All I know is that a single rushed citizen nets you 20 shields at the cost of an unhappy person for some length of time, but this unhappy person can be counteracted by lux or martial law or Temples etc.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 30-05-2003 at 20:14

	30-05-2003 20:17									#3
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I personally like pop rushing temples at border cities.
Simply because the border expansion gives extra warning on attacks.

But other than that...not really...only for necessary improvements that I need to be done fast, and never at a cost of more than 1 worker.

	30-05-2003 20:23									#4
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A point just occurred to me. As per the AltSP, we are hoping to crank workers as well as military units. Not only will rushing harm our production by lessening the worked tiles, but it will also eat into our pool of citizens available for workers. Especially given our terrain, workers are crucial to the AltSp. Unless someone comes up with a specific instance of it being useful, perhaps it would be best to leave rushing out during our Despotic years.

	30-05-2003 20:50									#5
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The unhappiness effect lasts for 20 turns after the rush and makes 1 citizen unhappy per every pop point used up in the rush. No more than half the city pop may be used to rush a build.

Mass pop rushing would be viable only if we had means to quickly replenish the population used up to rush - lots of Granaries or The Pyramids. Also, generally it is less of an unhappiness problem to rush Temples, as the Temple itself "quells" that one unhappy citizen back to content, while expanding the city radius and allowing one more citizen once those 20 turns of poprush induced unhappiness are over.

Rushing makes sense in distant, quite corrupt cities that have a fairly good food surplus (at least +2 food) - you are then basically building out of "uncorrupted" food instead of "corrupted" (thus, non-available) shields.

	01-06-2003 07:35									#6
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hi ,

why would be rushing if in a while we shall be able to buy , ....

have a nice day

	01-06-2003 07:54									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Due to the lack of replies to this thread, can we take it then that no-one sees a great need to poprush?

	01-06-2003 08:01									#8
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We may want to pop rush where and as it proves useful.

Depending on what order things are built and worker availability, it may not be a bad idea in 1 or 2 spots during the game.

It is not a great strategy in general though. Think about it. It takes 40 turns for a city on grass to grow 4 pop (from 2 to 6). Pop rush at 2 pop. Sure, 20 instant shields (for the first rush only). Yeehaw! Now, keep that pop and work a mined grass... 40 shields in 40 turns... Rushing doesn't look so good now, does it?

	01-06-2003 08:11									#9
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Pop rushing is for two instances...

Border cities which have insane corruption and you need to get something out of it somehow.

Cities with high food (or granaries) which can easily make up for the cost of the lost population.

That and when you run across a situation when you REALLY need something done, which is very rare...

	01-06-2003 10:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It is not a great strategy in general though. Think about it. It takes 40 turns for a city on grass to grow 4 pop (from 2 to 6). Pop rush at 2 pop. Sure, 20 instant shields (for the first rush only). Yeehaw! Now, keep that pop and work a mined grass... 40 shields in 40 turns... Rushing doesn't look so good now, does it?

Just to clarify: 2-pop rushing would net 2*20=40 shields.

This is of course true on condition that the extra unwhipped citizens are actually capable of producing the extra shield(s).

If you have a city that:

1) grows +1 pop in 5 turns (+2 pop in 10 turns) or faster
2) is hopelessly corrupt, so all you get is 1 or 2 spt, no matter how many labourers sweat in the city mines

then pop-rushing may be an excellent strategy, as you are effectively turning 10-20 surplus food into 20-40 instant, uncorrupted shields.

But "1)" needs lots of floodplains, granary (or Pyramids). We do not seem to have or likely to get any of those. And "2)" will also probably not be our case, as we have our small commercial empire tightly packed, so corruption is hopefully going to be less of a problem. The conditions making pop-rushing a viable strategy are pretty specific and we do not seem to be anywhere close to fulfilling them.

	01-06-2003 12:12									#11
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vondrack is correct. With our tightly packed cities pop rushing isn't to viable, unless we are presented with an emergency situation.

The likely times that pop-rushing will help us and would be even favorable is in far off distant cities where a Temple can help us expand enough to reach a resource or a courthouse to reduce corruption.

	02-06-2003 02:54									#12
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You can also pop-rush granaries if your empire can withstand the ever-growing maintenance cost; a pop-rushed granary usually replaces its weight in food/production *very* quickly. I might have to experiment with the idea of poprushing them in every town, then selling back the ones that aren't useful after a town gets to size 6/12..

::think:: Y'know.... that might actually not be a bad idea at all....

	02-06-2003 04:19									#13
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With the amount of jungle we have to clear (and WILL have to clear), it would be worth experimenting with one or two cities reaching 6 and then pumping out workers whenever their foodbox is about to fill instead of selling the Granaries. We could certainly have a worker every 3-4 turns at max from some cities in this case.