31-05-2003 14:03									#1
	GoW-ND Chat Log Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

This is it, the one you've all been waiting for:

Log of the chat with ND on Thursday 1900 GMT

quote: Session Start: Thu May 29 12:40:35 2003 Session Ident: #GoW [12:40] * Now talking in #GoW * Retrieving #GoW info... [12:41] * MasterZen changes topic to 'Welcome to the Glorious Warmonger chat room' [13:02] * [ND]Darekill has joined #gow [13:03] [[ND]Darekill] Hi [13:06] [[ND]Darekill] Hi there [13:06] [MasterZen] hello!! [13:06] [MasterZen] wie geht es ihnen? [13:07] [[ND]Darekill] Danke sehr gut [13:07] [MasterZen] I'm so glad the Apolyton chatroom works again [13:07] * Borc has joined #GoW [13:07] [[ND]Darekill] Yes it makes things essier! [13:08] [Borc] Hello Master Zen! [13:08] [MasterZen] Borc! hello! [13:08] [[ND]Darekill] easier [13:08] * Borc is now known as [ND]Borc [13:08] [MasterZen] before we had to switch between Dalnet and undernet... [13:09] [MasterZen] it was a pain [13:09] [[ND]Darekill] I have forgotten to send you the iron this turn i'll do it next turn big promise [13:09] [MasterZen] ok [13:09] [[ND]Darekill] kein PW [13:09] [MasterZen] is anyone else from ND coming? [13:10] * Zayxus has joined #GOW [13:10] [MasterZen] that answered my question [13:10] [MasterZen] hello Zayxus [13:10] [[ND]Darekill] yes and i accidentlie typed something here that was meant for them [13:10] [Zayxus] hello together [13:11] [MasterZen] Panzer32 should be here any moment... [13:11] [[ND]Darekill] one thing before we start. [13:11] [MasterZen] sure [13:11] [[ND]Borc] fine! Ghengis is at vacation? [13:11] [MasterZen] umm... not preceisely "vacation" [13:11] [[ND]Darekill] This chat log should be absolutely secret. [13:11] [MasterZen] he was called up for military training for 2 weeks [13:12] [MasterZen] yes, these logs are always secret [13:12] [[ND]Darekill] that means you can publish the log in the GoW forum but nowhere else [13:12] [MasterZen] we have never published them anywhere [13:12] [[ND]Borc] the military training is ok! we need it for RP ;-) [13:12] [MasterZen] hehe [13:13] [MasterZen] can you guys give me 5 min? [13:13] [MasterZen] I have to do something quick.. [13:13] [[ND]Darekill] of course [13:13] [MasterZen] ok [13:13] [MasterZen] nick /MZ|brb [13:13] * MasterZen is now known as MZ|brb [13:14] [MZ|brb] 5 min... [13:15] [[ND]Darekill] we have just taken over the GOW forum! [13:16] [[ND]Darekill] be right back [13:21] * MZ|brb is now known as MasterZen [13:21] [MasterZen] back [13:21] [MasterZen] so did you guys watch the game yesterday? [13:21] [[ND]Borc] milan-juve? [13:21] [MasterZen] yeah [13:21] [MasterZen] it was sooo boring [13:21] [MasterZen] terrible game [13:21] [[ND]Borc] only the last 30 minutes and the penalties [13:22] [[ND]Borc] right! [13:22] [MasterZen] I wanted Juve to win [13:22] [[ND]Borc] are you italian? [13:22] * feanor0815 has joined #GOW [13:23] [[ND]Borc] hi feanor! [13:23] [[ND]Darekill] Ah now our delegation is complete. [13:23] [feanor0815] yeah hello you all its done [13:23] [MasterZen] hello feanor [13:23] [MasterZen] Darekill: get out of the #Apolyton chat [13:23] [[ND]Borc] let us wait for panzer? [13:24] [MasterZen] might make people suspicious [13:24] [MasterZen] let's give him 5 minutes then we start [13:25] [MasterZen] I'm going to PM him right now in case he forgot [13:25] [[ND]Borc] ok [13:25] * feanor0815 is now known as [ND]feanor0815 [13:26] [MasterZen] I don't think he forgot, perhaps he got the time mixed-up [13:26] [MasterZen] because of daylight savings time [13:26] [MasterZen] I am at -6 GMT but with saving time I'm at -7 GMT [13:27] [[ND]Darekill] in Mexico? [13:27] [MasterZen] yes [13:27] [MasterZen] sunny Mexico [13:27] [[ND]Darekill] that explains the spanish [13:28] [MasterZen] of course [13:28] [[ND]Darekill] we are in not so sunny germany [13:28] [MasterZen] bienvenidos, mis amigos Alemanes [13:29] [MasterZen] Ok, I think we should start [13:30] [[ND]Borc] this is the "small" chat to preapare a "big" chat, right? [13:30] [MasterZen] yep [13:30] [MasterZen] just pre-liminary things, like when this will start, stuff like that [13:30] [MasterZen] Panzer wanted to talk about splitting the continent as he had made a map [13:31] [[ND]Borc] ah, you have the map? [13:31] [MasterZen] no... [13:31] [MasterZen] he does [13:31] [[ND]Borc] you can send the map later [13:31] [MasterZen] we can talk about timing in the meantime though [13:32] [MasterZen] I think we had showed the map to Zayxus a few weeks ago [13:32] [MasterZen] before we were supposed to have the chat during Easter which was cancelled [13:32] [[ND]Borc] zayxus... you remember the map? [13:33] * Zayxus has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [13:33] [[ND]Borc] [13:33] [MasterZen] he stole the map!!! hahahaha [13:34] [[ND]Borc] i think we can talk about the map later. i am sure there will be no big problems with the map [13:34] * Zayxus has joined #GOW [13:35] [MasterZen] [13:35] [Zayxus] sorry, back ... [13:35] [MasterZen] ok, timing [13:35] [[ND]Borc] hi zayxus, do you have the map now? [13:35] [Zayxus] please wait for the upload... [13:36] * mrmitchell has joined #GoW [13:36] [mrmitchell] uh... [13:37] * mrmitchell was kicked by MasterZen (MasterZen) [13:37] [[ND]Darekill] can we set a pw? [13:37] [MasterZen] I just did [13:37] [[ND]Darekill] good [13:37] * MasterZen sets mode: +k Dtrategy [13:37] [[ND]Borc] MasterZen: RP has also Feudalismus... for a long time or did they get it from GS now? [13:38] [MasterZen] we sold it to them [13:39] [MasterZen] the reason for this is that everyone wanted us to sell it to them when we got it [13:39] [MasterZen] GS has offered them a very low price for it [13:40] [MasterZen] so since they were going to get it anyway, better to get it from us, than them [13:41] [[ND]Borc] I can understand you but you know our contract ;-) § 4b Every trade that either team makes with Roleplay must be agreed upon by both teams. [13:41] [MasterZen] I though GF had told you about this.. [13:41] [MasterZen] since the moment we got the tech [13:42] [MasterZen] we had a 10-turn no-trade clause [13:42] [[ND]Borc] sorry, that can be the truth.. [13:42] [MasterZen] after that we had every intention of selling it to the other teams to get the $$ back [13:43] [MasterZen] remember, we got it first so that GS wouldn't sell it to each of you for 200g [13:43] [[ND]Borc] anyway there was no way to prevent RP getting feudalism ... no problem [13:43] [MasterZen] I know, [13:43] [MasterZen] plus, they would get suspicious, why we sold it to everyone and not them... [13:44] [[ND]Borc] right... but we cant wait very long with the war. they have 12 cities now and feudalism [13:44] [MasterZen] yes [13:44] [[ND]Borc] when will you get chivalry? [13:44] [MasterZen] we want to start the moment we get Chivalry [13:44] [MasterZen] I think in 10 turns [13:45] [MasterZen] will you be ready by then? [13:45] [[ND]Borc] we both will need time to upgrade our riders [13:46] [MasterZen] time and $$$, upgrades are expensive [13:46] [MasterZen] although Ansars are a bit cheaper [13:46] [MasterZen] horseman-Rider upgrade costs 80g [13:47] [[ND]Borc] and then you still will have a long way to the south [13:47] [MasterZen] not so much, Riders have movement of 3 [13:47] [MasterZen] we'll be there before RP can **** in their pants [13:48] [MasterZen] they also can't defend their entire territory most likely [13:48] [[ND]Borc] ok so let us say we will start the war in about 12-13 turns = ~200 BC, right? [13:48] [MasterZen] yes, agreed [13:49] [[ND]Borc] the next step should be that we work out an attack plan for 200 BC [13:50] [MasterZen] yes [13:50] [[ND]Borc] ND and GoW should write conceots to discuss them at the next chat meeting [13:50] [[ND]Borc] =concepts [13:50] [MasterZen] good, we'll draw up a battle plan [13:51] * [ND]Darekill has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [13:51] * darekill has joined #gow [13:51] [MasterZen] wait, how did he join if I had a password set? [13:52] [[ND]Borc] hmm [13:52] [[ND]Borc] darekill? [13:52] [MasterZen] darekill did you already know the password? [13:53] [[ND]feanor0815] i gave it to him [13:53] [darekill] yes i did [13:53] [MasterZen] ok [13:53] [darekill] how do i change my name again? [13:53] [MasterZen] "/nick" [13:53] * darekill is now known as [ND] [13:54] [MasterZen] the invisible man! [13:54] [[ND]Borc] )) [13:54] [[ND]feanor0815] not dhere [13:54] [MasterZen] "/nick yourname" [13:54] [[ND]] i'll get it just a moment... [13:55] [[ND]feanor0815] or on options nickname im a klicker [13:55] [[ND]Borc] MsterZen: probably GoW will attack in the East and we in the West. [13:56] [MasterZen] yes, we had agreed on that [13:56] [[ND]] welll [13:56] * [ND] is now known as Darekill [13:56] [Darekill] Grummel.... [13:56] [[ND]Borc] do you think we both also should send a fleet in the south with some nasty UUs [13:56] * Darekill is now known as [ND]Darekill [13:56] [MasterZen] where south? [13:57] [MasterZen] it might work for you as you are nearer [13:57] * Zayxus is now known as [ND]Zayxus [13:57] [[ND]Borc] south coast of RP... we think to land there maybe [13:57] [MasterZen] I would like to know some things: [13:58] [MasterZen] who many swordsmen(med inf) does RP have? [13:58] [MasterZen] where are they? [13:58] [[ND]Darekill] We have the Vessel "Südstern" on the way. On board is a Swordsman and a Scout. [13:58] [MasterZen] I'm thinking our more mobile troops can actually be best used to kill them off in open terrain [13:58] [MasterZen] then hit the cities [13:59] [MasterZen] their city placement is not good, they have no depth [13:59] [[ND]Darekill] We plan to lead a defensiv War in the Jungle. [14:00] [MasterZen] you perhaps expect them to attack from the jungle? from your east? [14:00] [MasterZen] because if so, I have an idea... [14:00] [[ND]Borc] if we start a big attack in the east they have to make room in the west (for you) [14:02] [[ND]Borc] santiago/zaragossa is in the west [14:02] [MasterZen] we were planning on hitting Toledo and Bilbao [14:02] [MasterZen] they are in the east [14:02] [[ND]Borc] ok ) you in the east (toledo/bilbao), we in the west [14:03] [MasterZen] yes [14:03] [[ND]Borc] we probably will upgrade our army in marlowa [14:03] [[ND]Darekill] We can not attack through the Jungle. [14:03] [[ND]Borc] but anyway all people of ND will start to discuss more plans the next days [14:04] [MasterZen] as long as we both threaten them from both sides, they will be forced to defend only one part [14:04] [[ND]Darekill] Not with Med.Inf against cities that are stacked with Walls Med.inf and Pikeman... [14:04] [MasterZen] do you have catapults? [14:05] [[ND]Borc] yes but if we come with a big army they will not know if we attack santiagi, zaragossa, leon or vigo first [14:05] [[ND]Darekill] nope [14:06] [MasterZen] they have a pretty big army themselves [14:06] [MasterZen] they've been building up for the last 10-20 turns [14:07] [MasterZen] my belief is that they are trying to provoke a war with you and have us join in [14:07] [[ND]Darekill] would be only logical. [14:08] [MasterZen] unless they suspect we are allied, which is a possibility [14:08] [MasterZen] not likely, but still could be [14:08] [[ND]Borc] MasterZen i have panzers map now [14:08] [MasterZen] ok [14:09] [MasterZen] umm... could you e-mail it to me please [14:09] [[ND]Borc] yes [14:10] [[ND]Borc] mail is out to feanor also [14:11] [MasterZen] thank you [14:11] [[ND]Borc] actually i find the map vey intersting but i understand nothing ;-) [14:11] [MasterZen] hahaha, yes it's a little complicated [14:11] [MasterZen] I'm downloading it right now so I can explain [14:12] [[ND]Borc] ) thx! [14:12] [MasterZen] btw, what happened to mav_son? [14:13] [[ND]Darekill] the plain and simple truth is [14:13] [[ND]Darekill] we don't know [14:13] [MasterZen] damn [14:13] [MasterZen] I hope it wasn't anything serious [14:13] [[ND]Borc] mav_son is missed for 15 days now [14:13] [[ND]Darekill] he just disapeared leaving us in confusion. [14:14] [MasterZen] something similar happend to one of our members of the ISDG [14:14] [[ND]Borc] we have to start elections next week [14:14] [MasterZen] dissappeared for over a month [14:15] [MasterZen] well, when you hear from mav_son again, send him my best wishes [14:15] [MasterZen] I have the map open now [14:16] [MasterZen] basically the colored lines are proposed boundaries [14:16] [MasterZen] the Green letters are bonuses [14:17] [MasterZen] the pink letters are luxuries [14:17] [MasterZen] the blue letters are resources [14:18] [MasterZen] Panzer32 had mentioned that the best border would be red-yellow-red-darkred [14:19] [[ND]Borc] not an easy job for panzer to find a 50% solution there :-) [14:19] [MasterZen] it would give GoW most of the land, but ND most of the luxes and resources

	31-05-2003 14:05									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

...continued

Panzer32 triumphantly joins just when I was making a fool out of myself explaining the map...

quote: [14:20] * Panzer32 has joined #goW [14:20] [Panzer32] hello [14:20] [MasterZen] hello panzer!! [14:20] [MasterZen] right when the party was starting [14:20] [[ND]Borc] hi panzer! [14:20] [Panzer32] just guessed the password [14:20] [Panzer32] so where are we? [14:21] [[ND]Borc] we decided to start the war ~200 BC [14:21] [MasterZen] yes, I put the pw because mr_mitchell dropped in unexpectedly [14:21] [[ND]Borc] war plans have to be prepared the next days [14:21] [[ND]Borc] now we study your big map of the continent, panzer [14:21] [MasterZen] we were precisely discussing your map [14:21] [[ND]Borc] good work! [14:22] [Panzer32] 200bc... 12 turns or so? [14:22] [MasterZen] more or less [14:22] [Panzer32] thanks [14:22] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Panzer32 [14:23] [MasterZen] panzer, what was the border you were proposing? [14:23] [[ND]Borc] and how many cities we already have in "your" teritory there?... [14:24] [Panzer32] It was green-yellow-red-blue [14:24] [MasterZen] oh... hehe I got that mixed up [14:24] [MasterZen] I told them something else :P [14:25] [Panzer32] Borc: not including the Iron city, 2 developed ones and 1 new one. [14:25] [Panzer32] But remember, We would give captured RP cities to you [14:25] [Panzer32] and I believe you get slightly more resources. [14:26] [[ND]Borc] i know. it was only a question... [14:26] [[ND]Borc] green-yellow-red-blue? what is green (i am really a bit red-green blind) [14:26] [MasterZen] the line below where it says "29 tiles" [14:26] [MasterZen] in the north [14:27] [[ND]Borc] dar-el-killam will be yours then? [14:28] [MasterZen] I believe so [14:28] [[ND]Darekill] That woul mean i have to become a member of gow.... [14:29] [[ND]Darekill] it is my city you know? [14:29] [MasterZen] you are always welcome [14:29] [Panzer32] counting tiles and resources... [14:29] [Panzer32] For GYRB: 337 tiles for ND; 348 for GoW. [14:30] [Panzer32] 10 lux resources for GoW; 16 for ND. [14:31] [Panzer32] 2 horses and 1 Iron for GoW; 3 Iron and 3 Horses for ND. [14:31] [Panzer32] make that 11 lux resources for GoW; 16 for ND. [14:32] [Panzer32] 17 bonus resources for goW; 19 bonus resources for ND [14:33] [Panzer32] make that 20 bonus resources for ND. [14:33] [Panzer32] These are what I count [14:33] [[ND]Borc] thats sounds fine :-) but i am sure we have to discuss it in our forum the next few days. [14:33] [MasterZen] of course, there is still time [14:36] [Panzer32] ND would get all RP cities except for Bilbao and Toledo [14:36] [Panzer32] Bilbao would probably autoraze anyways [14:37] [MasterZen] I was telling them that depth is RP's greatest weakness [14:37] [[ND]Borc] yes it is very intersting and it is a fair propsal i think. some of us will cry about dar-el-killam im sure but we the offer is fair [14:38] [[ND]Darekill] sniff [14:38] [MasterZen] I'm sure Darekill can re-name Madrid Dar-e-Killed-You [14:38] [[ND]Darekill] grin [14:39] [[ND]Borc] i really hope rp will not make suicide with all cities as lux did before :-)) [14:39] [MasterZen] unless they act like Trip and staart razing [14:39] [MasterZen] crosspost [14:40] [MasterZen] only if they see their cause is hopeless [14:40] [Panzer32] what unit will ND use most? Midivil infantry? Or do you have horsemen to upgrade to Ansars? [14:40] [[ND]Darekill] we do have some horsemen [14:40] [Panzer32] brb [14:41] [[ND]Darekill] but right now we have more Med.Inf. [14:41] [[ND]Borc] i prefer to build ansars for the next turns but we have to discuss it. [14:41] [MasterZen] you would best do with a mix of both [14:42] [Panzer32] back [14:42] [[ND]Darekill] what do you think about Catapults? [14:43] [MasterZen] you might need some [14:43] [MasterZen] their cities close to you have walls [14:43] [Panzer32] catapults can't go across jungle [14:43] [Panzer32] without road [14:43] [[ND]Borc] can catapults cross the jungle ;-) [14:43] [MasterZen] I meant the western cities [14:43] [MasterZen] unless you road [14:44] [Panzer32] do they have a road to the western cities? [14:44] [MasterZen] also, there's a river in front of the western cities [14:44] [MasterZen] makes attack more difficult [14:44] [Panzer32] how about pilliaging Iron to start the war? [14:45] [Panzer32] get a galley and drop off a couple pikes on their Iron source. [14:45] [[ND]Borc] yes. its possible that we go through their land with ansars... guerilla tactics [14:45] [MasterZen] pillaging the iron would be even better [14:45] [MasterZen] send some pikes [14:45] [MasterZen] and then fortify the mountain [14:45] [MasterZen] in fact, that should be the first move in the war [14:46] [Panzer32] by the way, GoW won't be able to attack for a few turns after the war starts. [14:46] [[ND]Borc] why? [14:46] * [ND]Darekill has quit IRC (Quit: ) [14:46] [MasterZen] distance [14:46] [MasterZen] unless the war starts a few turns after we get chivalry [14:47] [Panzer32] basically because we don't have chivalry for 10 turns, and then we have to upgrade for a turn, then some more turns to RP. [14:47] [MasterZen] turn 10 - chivalry [14:47] [MasterZen] turn 11 - upgrade finished [14:47] [MasterZen] turn 12 - begin march [14:47] [[ND]Borc] yes 12-13 turns, maybe 15 [14:48] [MasterZen] 15 would be perfect [14:48] [[ND]Borc] i only say 200 BC because we both should start to writeattack plans [14:48] [Panzer32] by the way, ND, we still don't have Iron [14:48] [[ND]Borc] for the next chat we should prepare war maps [14:48] [[ND]Borc] sorry panzer! darkill forgot it! i saw it too late to warn him! [14:49] [Panzer32] thats ok, wasn't vital for this turn [14:49] [MasterZen] my estimate is that we can get Riders in 4 turns to the jungle [14:49] [[ND]Borc] the next turn he will send the iron ) sorry [14:49] [Panzer32] we just need to upgrade a few warriors [14:50] [MasterZen] that means 15 turns from now would be the perfect moment [14:50] [MasterZen] or 14 [14:50] [[ND]Borc] sorry, my family asks me if the "small" chat will be over now [14:50] [MasterZen] if you can get the iron pillaged [14:50] [MasterZen] before we finish, I think we shuould set a date and time for the next one [14:50] [[ND]Borc] i would say we both prepare war plans for 15 turns [14:51] [[ND]Borc] yes, what do you think about next week same time? [14:51] [MasterZen] what day? [14:51] [MasterZen] time is fine [14:51] [Panzer32] we have 7 turns to move to get to Bilbao [14:52] [MasterZen] are you sure? Riders move 3 [14:52] [[ND]Borc] maybe we should have a chat every thursday 19oo GMT now until the war stars. what do you think? [14:52] [MasterZen] fine with me * Looking up Panzer32 user info... [14:53] [[ND]Zayxus] fine, me too [14:53] [[ND]Borc] last question: what is with your mp with rp? [14:53] [[ND]Borc] you have to attack one turn before we attack (ghengis said) [14:53] [MasterZen] ok, here's the deal: [14:54] [MasterZen] we actually need to declare war on YOU first [14:54] [MasterZen] that immediately voids the agreement [14:55] [MasterZen] wait... [14:55] [MasterZen] let me see the pact again [14:55] [[ND]Borc] ok [14:56] [[ND]Borc] i think you have declare war on THEM first [14:56] [MasterZen] yes [14:56] [MasterZen] sorry [14:56] [[ND]Borc] right? [14:56] [MasterZen] I just thought there was a non-agression clause but there isn't [14:56] [MasterZen] hehehe [14:56] [MasterZen] so, WE declare war [14:57] [[ND]Borc] ok. let us work out an attck scenario until next thursday [14:57] [[ND]Borc] i hope we cab bring a war map [14:57] [MasterZen] yes [14:57] [MasterZen] we'll work on one too [14:57] [[ND]Borc] to the next chat [14:57] [[ND]Borc] great! [14:57] [MasterZen] thursday at 1900 GMT [14:57] [[ND]Borc] ok we also will show panzers map to our people [14:57] [MasterZen] perfect [14:58] [[ND]Borc] thursday 1900 GMT as today [14:58] [MasterZen] green-yellow-red-blue [14:58] [[ND]Borc] green-yellow-red-blue [14:58] [[ND]Borc] will you malke a log of this chat today [14:58] [[ND]Borc] and can you email me the log? [14:58] [MasterZen] yes, you want us to send it to you? [14:58] [MasterZen] ok, I will [14:59] [[ND]Borc] yes would be great! [14:59] [MasterZen] no problem, I'll send it immediately after we leave [14:59] [[ND]Borc] ok, i wish you a good evning! [15:00] [[ND]Borc] it was nice to meet you, good luck! [15:00] [MasterZen] good luck to you guys too! [15:00] [[ND]feanor0815] cu on green-yellow-red-blue [15:00] [[ND]Borc] bye [15:00] [[ND]Zayxus] bye [15:00] * [ND]Borc has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [15:00] [MasterZen] bye [15:00] * [ND]feanor0815 has left #GOW [15:00] * [ND]Zayxus has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)

	31-05-2003 14:06									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Next chat:

same bat time, same bat channel

server: Apolyton.net
port: 6667
room: #GoW
password: Dtrategy

Next Thursday 1900 GMT which is 2 pm EST

	31-05-2003 17:14									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Tossing up some ideas here ... none really thought through...just brain storming...

Can we get iron from RP indtead of ND...that will keep RP a little more relaxed...ie..iron deal fell through with ND...gift us RP iron for nothing.

I thought the MPP with RP was defensive only (I cant find it - too lazy to search). So we declare war on ND..RP claims we went offensive therefore the MPP in invalid....We declare peace with ND...ND & GoW declare war on RP.
If RP does commit forces..ND is waiting for them in the jungle...we claim "fooled ya..the MPP was defensive only"...we declare peace with ND...attack RP.

The first act of war does not have to be a kill. It is better that it is, as we get surprise...but we could just "declare war"...and then still spend 3-4 turns to get our riders south. Not sure how this helps ..

	03-06-2003 21:58									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Actually, the RP treaty says nothing about us declaring war on each other, i.e. it's a MPP but NOT a NAP (non-aggression pact).

This gives us far more leeway in how to actually plan the diplomatic aspects of the pre-war.


BTW, the iron issue is a good idea, but I'm sure that ND already sent it to us.

	04-06-2003 00:41									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: BTW, the iron issue is a good idea, but I'm sure that ND already sent it to us.

Yeah, we have had Iron since I believe 430bc.