01-06-2003 04:21									#1
	I have no idea how to place my defenses Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have never really thought about how I'm supposed to lay out the defenses of my nation. I have always just put extra amounts of garrisoned units in border cities. When the AI tries to bypass the cities to go to the heart of my nation and pillage improvements I just send my units to defend the spaces in between cities. I like using forts, but I never can use them well. They take a while to build. In this one game I built this huge wall of fortresses along my border with Greece, each with three MI and 1 artillery. They were a stronger civ than me. I went to war with them but I got everyone else in the world on my side (that's my trademark, I fight little but when I do fight I always win even if I'm small because I enlist the aid of all the other civs) and I captured some of their cities, and my line of fortresses wasn't even on the border at all anymore.

Some people talk of creating traps using fortresses, but I have no idea how to create a trap.

If you won't tell me some strategies could you please post a link to a good thread on this topic.

	01-06-2003 07:02									#2
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I finally realized in that game you posted that those were fortresses. I had never built one in all the civ games I have played from Chief to Deity. So I would say they are not a wise investment, except on rare circumstances. Yes they can be useful, but not required.
It is not hard to figure out the Ai and it tactics, so you can get away without troops in all cities, once you get out of despostism. I like to get mobile troops ASAP (horses) and road my cities. This lets me defend with less. Once you get RR up it is a cake wall to defend.
Try to funnel their troops in a kill zone. This can be done by leaving a hole in their approach path and having bombardment units to hurt them.

	01-06-2003 07:24									#3
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I garrison 1 unit in each city, just in case. Forts aren't that big a deal, and they clutter up the landscape later, when the borders move. With nasty neighbors I like to set up a monolithic wall of defense--something (ideally) impenetrable (units on every tile that can prevent opponent from moving into my territory). But that's not usually necessary.
Clusters of units that are located in centralized positions (based on their MP) can move quickly to defend any point of invasion. This gets really easy after rail. Taking advantage of high ground with fortified units is a good idea, as well.
There are a lot of tactics and I just adapt them to the situation.

	01-06-2003 07:24									#4
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Deny the AI the highground - force them onto the flats. Then kill them. Mobile troops are best, since you can place a stack in a relatively central location and then respond quickly.

In AU208, I have a combination of catapults, knights & immortals spaced around the coast of my empire (island nation) waiting for landings. I watch incoming ships, and position my forces such that I can hit the landing force with as many cat shots as possible, and then finish with knights and/or immortals. Works well.

If you are militaristic, walls are a good investment. Spearmen, fortified, behind walls = 3.5 defense. That's nothin' to sneeze at.

One KEY thing: never, ever trust 1 unit to do a job. I don't care if it's a Mechanized Infantry division. The RNG is a cruel mistress. Border cities should have more than 1 defender, and mobile troops should be within 1-2 turns movement. If you don't have that, you're not totally safe.

However, the best advice I can give you (IMHO) is to be on the attack. The best defense... well, you know how it goes.

-Arrian

	01-06-2003 07:31									#5
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As Arrian mentioned, numbers are your friend. I'll never forgive the RNG after that conscript barb wiped out my capital city with no HP lost...

Hilled cities are fun. Add walls to that. Attacking that city over a river will be impossible.

I've always only built forts when I run out of other improvements to work on (usually just before RRs and after I'm done laying them everywhere). If I have a lot of Workers and a lot of time they'll be on practically every tile.

As far as unit placement I always put all of my units in border cities, with mobile and attack units in my interior cities. If the AI tries to bypass I'll crush it with my interior offensive armies. Or they can smack themselves against all the defenders on the perimeter.

As Arrian also mentioned, get them on flat terrain. Uprooting fortified Spears/Pikes on mountains is such a pain you simply can't imagine. I was winning a war completely until I had to clear one of those suckers, and my entire army vanished because of one. I promptly made peace as their Immortals began to swarm, built up another army this time with Horsemen, and paid them a return visit.

	01-06-2003 07:43									#6
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1 more thought on fortresses: if I'm going to build them then they are most useful in mtns. With all the defensive bonuses in such a position, then even obsolete units can hold out there until reinforced.

	02-06-2003 05:22									#7
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The enemy knows where your defenses are. Abandon a city completely and the AI will often march right past your border defenders towards it, even if it's two to three turns away. Then hit them with your mobile units. There, that's how you set a trap.

	02-06-2003 08:51									#8
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Once I have rail roads, I see no reason to guard 90% of my cities. The only ones I guard now are those that are reachable from any rival culture square by a 3-movement offensive unit.

While a marine attack is a possibility, I take the philosophy that the defense of all my shore cities (roughly 40% of my cities in my current game) is not worth the ramifications of them actually taking a city. As I have railroads, I can easily take it back before they can establish a formidable defense (computer opponents). Now this move is entirely foolish verses a human opponent, as they may simply take over all 40% of my cities in a single turn.

I also keep troops in cities I fear of culture flipping, or ones with resistors (duh). I play communist due to my extreme size (really huge map) yet I haven't taken advantage of the military's policing aiblity, which in retrospect is quite stupid of me.

	02-06-2003 13:16									#9
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Hi,

my strategy to defend my poor empire is as follows:

The early game

In despotism only 1 unit/city (except if I don't have enough luxuries and try to build a wonder and trying to let the city grow...), but sometimes 0 units/city. In border cities maximum 2 units with better defence (also trying to make somehow (barracks) veteran units.

The fast reacting strategy

I always build an "fast reacting" army of horsmen, knights or something like that. I usually don't put them in border cities, but 1 step behind covering about 4-5 cities. If I have more than 1 border (let's say I am in the middle of pangea) I create more than 1 army like that, but maybe smaller sized, just to stop the attacking AI's army, until the next nearest horde arrives. Actually, this is also a reason, why I don't put this kind of armies into border city.

...Later, when my empire is fully railroaded (or at least the cities are connected) I join all the "fast reacting" armies into one. They can react very fast everywhare now...

The fence

In later game, I am more careful with defence. The AIs' MAs can be very powerful and fast. So I build a fence from my MIs on the border...I think, actually, the AI doesn't like these fences and the probability of starting an aggression aggainst this fence is very low. I don't really understand why... The AI has to break that fence only at 1 place (killing 1 unit) and can easily arrive to my first city (within a turn)...but the AI is not doing so.

The air

I am also placing 1 fighter per city to catch the bombers.

The ocean

Battleship & Destroyer combination on ocean, defending my coast and sinking the AI's transports. Until the destroyers are available I don't do anything in this fiels. Maybe, building some artilleries to hit the enemy ships a few times, forcing them home for maintenence...

The cold war

I also always build SAM batteries. On the end of the game sometimes I am defending myself with ICBMs...

	02-06-2003 13:21									#10
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quote: Originally posted by cumi The fence In later game, I am more careful with defence. The AIs' MAs can be very powerful and fast. So I build a fence from my MIs on the border...I think, actually, the AI doesn't like these fences and the probability of starting an aggression aggainst this fence is very low. I don't really understand why... The AI has to break that fence only at 1 place (killing 1 unit) and can easily arrive to my first city (within a turn)...but the AI is not doing so.

Yes, I know now why is this good: the AI can not jump into my empire, before declaring me a war.

	02-06-2003 23:11									#11
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Would someone please explain to me how can you surprise or trap AI units, when it knows where all of your units are located? How does this partial blindness work?

Thanks,
GarP

	03-06-2003 00:27									#12
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By knowing it will avoid powerful stacks in good defensive position an dhead for weak or undefended cities, you can lead it to a place that is a good place to spring a trap. Some times you just get a natural trap such as a land bridge they must use. Then noting the prefered path of approach you can ambush them as well.

	03-06-2003 02:40									#13
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As mentioned earlier, the bait for the trap is a defenseless city. Move all units out of a city and the AI will bypass well defended units. They will head straight for the defenseless city. But of course your defensive units are only a tile away and can enter the city at any time.

	03-06-2003 08:15									#14
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I have never liked to use fortresses. By the time I have set the fortresses up the AI has gone into the heart of my empire and most of the other nations have more advanced improvements then me. Just my two cents.

	03-06-2003 19:11									#15
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I keep a minimum of two defenders in every city; I try for at least three in the more vulnerable (border) cities. Later I have 3 jet fighters in every border city. I seldom bother with fortresses unless I have to attack from a vulnerable tile (grassland, desert) and want to give my boys some defense before and during attack.

	03-06-2003 22:53									#16
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vmxa1/Imtoops: Thanks for your replies. I understand the principle of baiting the AI, but dont understand why it works, since the AI can also see any units that are lying in wait close enough to harm them.

As an example, an enemy regular spearman/settler combo just walked up to my vet knight last night on Monarch level (PTW unpatched). While a knight is not a powerful stack, 2:6 is pretty bad odds to risk a settler on. Since the AI does pretty well in some strategic situations, there must be some code to assess a developing situation. I was looking for some understanding of how this works so well in some situations and not others...i.e., where "the line" is drawn.

GarP

	03-06-2003 23:00									#17
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As long as I'm on a roll (and on my lunch hour) I have another defence question. Is there a known bug with "air superiority" for fighters? I've had games recently where it didnt work. The enemy bombers bombed cities with my fighters set on air superiority and the fighters did nothing. The AI's fighters worked just fine, unfortunately.

GarPtoo

	04-06-2003 01:46									#18
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Yes a fix was made for air superiority, I am not sure if it did the job (I do not have that many planes).

	04-06-2003 01:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by GarP2 vmxa1/Imtoops: Thanks for your replies. I understand the principle of baiting the AI, but dont understand why it works, since the AI can also see any units that are lying in wait close enough to harm them. As an example, an enemy regular spearman/settler combo just walked up to my vet knight last night on Monarch level (PTW unpatched). While a knight is not a powerful stack, 2:6 is pretty bad odds to risk a settler on. Since the AI does pretty well in some strategic situations, there must be some code to assess a developing situation. I was looking for some understanding of how this works so well in some situations and not others...i.e., where "the line" is drawn. GarP

I think that proves the AI is not always using a well concieved plan. They send settlers out with a single unit all the time. It does not matter what the unit it, the human will take it down with number or tactics.
In my AU208 game, the babs are send a few calvs to the same area over and over. They are better units than mine, but they get whacked anyway. I hit them with cats and then an army. So why do they not send those units to a less well defended area, I don't know.
I do not have enough units to defend all over this well and can move that fast, so they could hurt me with a wiser plan.

	04-06-2003 02:08									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Rob_S 1 more thought on fortresses: if I'm going to build them then they are most useful in mtns. With all the defensive bonuses in such a position, then even obsolete units can hold out there until reinforced.

I've used forts seriously just once, on a mountainous choke point which separated me from the rest of my continent and few annoyed civs. I placed several cannons and defenders in them and they proved quite useful. The problem was when I expanded by war past the choke point, and didn't need the forts (I was afraid the AI would use them against me if I left them there), I couldn't pillage my own forts before pillaging the roads that ran through them. Irritating.

	04-06-2003 02:13									#21
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Oops! I meant 2:4 odds in that last post. Still the same idea.

Sometimes the AI amazes me with how well it maneuvers, especially when attacking my cities. It explained a lot when I finally found out that it knew where all my units were. It seems to be pretty good at the old chess maneuver of double attack - making a move that threatens attack at 2 different points at the same time - used to force defenders to go the wrong direction or spread too thin. But maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

Thanks for info on the air superiority fix. I like aircraft, so I use them a lot, and am glad to hear it got fixed. My game computer is not the same as my web computer, so I have to firewall/virus protect it before I go online to get the patch, or set up a local network, but its more fun to use my time to play the game. This info will be an incentive.

Thanks, GarP

	04-06-2003 03:23									#22
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Does the unpatched regular Civ3 have an air superiority bug? That's what I have and when I set fighters to air superiority they do nothing. People have told me to download the 1.29 patch. Where can I find this patch and does it fix the air superiority bug?

Off topic: Just out of curiousity, is the capital for the Ottomans Ankara? (I don't have PTW)

	04-06-2003 17:51									#23
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Related question: If you load PTW does that also upgrade Civ 3 to the latest patch or do you have to do that separately?

Thanks, GarP

	04-06-2003 18:18									#24
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Pretty sure Civ3 and PTW are completely different.

	04-06-2003 20:25									#25
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GarP2,

There have been two patches post-PTW. So you install PTW and then patch the game. Many of us continue to use the 1.14 patch (first one) because the newest (1.21) hasn't been released in Europe and many of us are involved in PBEM/Democracy/Succession games that are using 1.14. Sir Ralph has explained how to do a dual installation such that you can pretty easily switch between 1.14 and 1.21 (I forget exactly where that explanation is here at 'poly, but it's topped over at central.masterzen.net).

-Arrian

	04-06-2003 23:39									#26
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quote: Originally posted by GarP2 Related question: If you load PTW does that also upgrade Civ 3 to the latest patch or do you have to do that separately? Thanks, GarP

Yes and no. PTW install will upgrade CivIII to 1.29f if it was not already. The patches after that are for PTW only and no more patches will be done for CivIII.