02-06-2003 07:49									#1
	New level of silliness: US Patents and Trademarks Office Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Not that long ago, anoter ACS'er posted a thread on a new US patent on yet another perpetual motion machine "invention." That sort of scam has been getting through the USPTO with increasing frequency. However, worst has yet to come.

When I was reading the weekly commentary on the James Randi Education Foundation website, I came upon this little gem: Q-Ray, a new "invention" granted patent number 5,989,178 by the USPTO.

Some interesting bits:

quote: A magnetic ring adapted to be worn on the little finger of the hand. The magnetic ring includes a ring and a pair of permanent magnets that extend from the ring. When the magnetic ring is worn on the little finger of the right hand, the pair of permanent magnets are oriented on the top and bottom, respectively, of the little finger, with the South pole of the magnet that is oriented on the top of the little finger generally contacting the top of the little finger, with the North pole of the magnet that is oriented on the top of the little finger in opposition thereto, with the North pole of the magnet that is oriented on the bottom of the little finger generally contacting the bottom of the little finger, and with the South pole of the magnet that is oriented on the bottom of the little finger in opposition thereto. When the magnetic ring is worn on the little finger of the left hand, the position of the polarities of the pair of permanent magnets are reversed from that of the right hand. The magnetic ring can also be made to fit around all the fingers of the hand and all the toes of the foot.

quote: The whole human body is a magnetic community. Each individual cell is a magnet and has polarities of North and South just like a regular magnet. That is why cells attract each other and form finally into a more complicated community, an animal body.

Randi proceeded to made some comments:

quote: The examiner for the USPTO is listed as John P. Lacyk. May I ask, did — or does — Mr. Lacyk understand this?. . . Surely, if he made his professional decision to grant a patent to this quack device, he must have accepted the silly "scientific" statements in the application, some of them shown above, as being true. What are his qualifications? Where did he learn this exotic view of biology? Does Mr. Lacyk have any scientific education at all? Does he believe the "science" offered here to be true? Does he have any common sense? What qualifies him for this responsible job?

Perpetual motion machines is one thing, but this? I am just waiting for somebody to start transmuting lead into gold by methods other than particle physics...

	02-06-2003 07:50									#2
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the patent office might as well just get a machine that says "approved"

	02-06-2003 15:26									#3
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Does it really matter that a patent was granted for this? It wouldn't work and will never be mass-produced. Sure, it's a bit dumb, but it doesn't hurt anyone.

	02-06-2003 15:31									#4
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Actually, you just hit the issue on the head - the patent office's job isn't to pass judgment on whether something will work. It's job is to see that there's enough documentation of whatever the design is, to verify that it is not in conflict with existing patents, and to be able to describe and index the thing enough so that if someone tries to infringe this patent later , the infringement (or lack) can be identified if someone tries to patent a similar device.

Most of the stuff patented probably never worked.

	02-06-2003 15:33									#5
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quote: Originally posted by DarthVeda the patent office might as well just get a machine that says "approved"

Why don't you design one, write up the documentation and submit it to the Patent Office?

	02-06-2003 16:07									#6
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat ....Most of the stuff patented probably never worked.

Quite correct. You can apply for a patent before you even build a prototype. Once you have a working prototype you are in a position to get the patent certified. That's why you see items with "patent pending" on them - the patent has been applied for but not approved yet.

I would guess that 60% or more of patents are never reapplied (you have to apply each year for an extension, up to the 20 year maximum) because the concept just does not work.

	02-06-2003 16:41									#7
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Why don't you design one, write up the documentation and submit it to the Patent Office?

Great idea.

	02-06-2003 19:24									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, you just hit the issue on the head - the patent office's job isn't to pass judgment on whether something will work. It's job is to see that there's enough documentation of whatever the design is, to verify that it is not in conflict with existing patents, and to be able to describe and index the thing enough so that if someone tries to infringe this patent later , the infringement (or lack) can be identified if someone tries to patent a similar device. Most of the stuff patented probably never worked.

Why would anybody care if that stuff does not work?

	02-06-2003 19:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Why would anybody care if that stuff does not work?

Like MtG said, the job of the patent office isn't to care about the inventions, nor to pass judgement on their usefulness or profitability, but to simply check that it isn't a copy of someone else's idea.
The fact is that nobody actually cares about these weird things other than their inventors and hack journalists looking to fill pages/air-time on a slow news day.

	03-06-2003 07:45									#10
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The whole idea of a patent is to let the inventor having a sanctioned monopoly on his widget, thus giving a financial incentive to inventing new things.

If an "invention" doesn't work, it can't be sold. So why give it protection?

	03-06-2003 08:21									#11
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Because if you deny protection to something that isn't an unauthorized copy or otherwise infringing, then you place yourself in the position of being litigated against, and having to prove via expert testimony that something won't work. Obviously easy to do with something like this, but if you're in the business of denying some patents based on opinion of their feasibility, you're in the business of judging all patent applications for (your opinion of) their feasibility. In addition to the cost and technical burden, there's also room for corruption in the process if you introduce that factor. So the PTO does not make judgments in that regard.

Besides, it's for the marketplace to determine whether something can be sold or not, unless it expressly conflicts with some other regulatory scheme (FDA, CPSC, FTC, etc.)

	03-06-2003 08:24									#12
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Because it would be a hell of lot more expensive in terms of personel and equipment to actually prove or disprove the feasibility of "inventions" that flood in yearly.

	03-06-2003 08:41									#13
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quote: Does Mr. Lacyk have any scientific education at all?

IIRC, you have to have a BS in a science field to work in the Patent Office.

	03-06-2003 10:26									#14
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Maybe they should ask for a working prototype before they finally grant the patent? That would make these phoney crap vanish in the blink of an eye.

That's also the consideration of protecting the public. Most people don't realise that patents don't mean anything these days, so scammers can easily foist their schemes on unsuspecting customers who think that a patent is some sort of guarantee.

	03-06-2003 10:38									#15
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Quite correct. You can apply for a patent before you even build a prototype. Once you have a working prototype you are in a position to get the patent certified. That's why you see items with "patent pending" on them - the patent has been applied for but not approved yet. I would guess that 60% or more of patents are never reapplied (you have to apply each year for an extension, up to the 20 year maximum) because the concept just does not work.

Another reason is that firms often don't bother certifying their patents. Product life cycles are so short nowadays, and good ideas will be copied anyway, so having a patent pending will be enough to give you that 1-2 year lead over your competitors.

	03-06-2003 11:05									#16
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You sure you have to reapply every year?

	03-06-2003 11:12									#17
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I completely agree w/ mtg and I dont even understand what the other sides gripe is. seems rather superficial. so crap that doesn't work gets patented, it doesn't seem all that harmful to the system since the idea of patenting is still working.

	03-06-2003 11:56									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

For anyone interested, Alex Chiu is giving these Immortality Devices away for free!!!!!! =O

quote: Based on a recent survey, 83% of Immortality Device users got their devices for free by becoming our members.   4% of people built their own Immortality Devices.  Only 13% of people purchased the devices from us.  The money we earned from sales barely pays for the cost of sending out free rings to our members.  But we believe that nothing can hide from the truth!  Today, tens of thousands of people all over the world are experiencing the power of The Immortality Device.  The device has opened their eyes for the first time. The truth shall always prevail.  We are dedicated to let everyone know that immortality is not just a dream but a reality!

http://www.alexchiu.com/

Yes, this device is the one UR talks about in the first post.

	03-06-2003 12:30									#19
	Got spare money?

Ah, typical Randi - a barrage of really nasty personal insults without a clue about the things he's ranting against.

	03-06-2003 18:44									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Maybe they should ask for a working prototype before they finally grant the patent?

The thing is that this imposes a hefty burden on the small-time inventor (the kind of inventor who needs to raise capital before he/she can even think about building a prototype). It's difficult to raise capital when you're afraid to talk to any venture capitalists for fear that they'll steal your unpatented invention.

I don't really see the problem in having people patent phony-baloney inventions -- if they're willing to shell out 6 grand to patent an impossible invention, then more power to them.

	03-06-2003 18:53									#21
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Has anyone checked out the future prediction part of the Alex Chiu website? Absolutely hilarious.

	03-06-2003 19:01									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You sure you have to reapply every year?

No, at least I don't think so. But getting the patent approved takes so long that the patent is more or less obsolete by then.