02-06-2003 20:22									#1
	Fungus vs Forests Put an end to popups!

In the late game, various techs jack up the resources yield of native fungus to amazing levels. I was wondering about this because I like to plant lots of forests and harvest them with Tree Fams and Hybrid Forests to get to 3-2-3, plus economy, ecology, and psyche bonus.

However, I have been wondering whether or not it is worth it to go pink instead nearer the endgame. Fungus is around 4-4-5 (I think) if you have all the booster techs.

What do other people do? Do Tree Farms and Hybrid Forests boost econ/eco/psyche stats even for non-forest squares? Does anybody favor self-inflicted Fungal Missile hits around bases that already have the Farms/Forests combo?

	02-06-2003 20:29									#2
	Got spare money?

I only favour fungus if..... I'm not running FM, and I've built the Xenoempathy Dome (mmm - its like free roads on every square)

So basically if I'm playing Fungus Boy or Deedee (or sometimes Yang)

-Jam

	03-06-2003 00:12									#3
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A fungal approach isn't worth it IMHO, as when you research the techs boosting the fungal production, you already are very close to transcendence victory. And I think a fungal missile costs more than planting fungus yourself with formers .

quote: Do Tree Farms and Hybrid Forests boost econ/eco/psyche stats even for non-forest squares?

Yes they do. A tree farm gives a +50% increase of your total economy and psych production, halves the eco-damage caused by terraforming, and gives you a extra free mineral.

	03-06-2003 00:18									#4
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I agree with Maniac. I find that a forest is useful from the very beginning, grows easily and becomes more productive through building facilities with other uses.

Fungus is painful early and by the time it could be the most productive square going, the game is already won or lost. Those late SPs are good for novelty value and nothing else IMHO.

	03-06-2003 04:08									#5
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I suppose in a "clash of the builders" MP game it could be useful t the end to try and get to trancend one turn faster (It could be crucial)

-Jam

	03-06-2003 04:36									#6
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I have nothing to add here, except that in order to make King I'm going to need a lot more posts.

	03-06-2003 04:40									#7
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I tend to not use either for purposes other than all the bonuses. I don't use fungus because even though I know that they give good stuff near the end of the game, I just don't like it.

Neither do I use forests for resources because I tend to use them to counteract eco-damage that I've caused.

When i make an improvement, Farm/Mine/Borehole/whatever, it usually stays there until the end of the game or is destroyed by fungus/mindworms/enemy troops.


...Besides, I like the fact that a properly placed mine can give 7+ mineral resources.

	03-06-2003 04:58									#8
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Forests and Boreholes for me. Forests are pretty, and boreholes make lots of energy. Mmm, Free Market.

	03-06-2003 08:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I have nothing to add here, except that in order to make King I'm going to need a lot more posts.

Ahh the power of Spam my friend. You too can be a Viking.

Seriously I'm surprised there was no obligatory Condensor/farm/soil enricher reference made as we fully understand that is the most powerful late game square.

	03-06-2003 13:26									#10
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I tend to forest right over any square that can be forested unless it has a good (and I mean 4 or more) resource special on it. For flat terrain with mineral bonuses, I always plant a forest there. That adds a little mineral to it whilst also letting you have the nutrient and energy bonuses commensurate with your TF/HF combinations. I usually mine and road rocky squares for crawler purposes, and sometimes if I find lots of ocean shelf that I can't be bothered to found sea bases on, I'll trawler those for nutrients to boost my cities.

I've found forests to be the single most consistently important terraform of choice. It practically spreads itself (...)

	04-06-2003 04:21									#11
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It's quite weird how planet decides to sometimes remove a farm or forest due to eco-damage and replace it some fungus which by that stage usually gives you more minerals and thus more eco-damage

	04-06-2003 11:21									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Ahh the power of Spam my friend. You too can be a Viking. Seriously I'm surprised there was no obligatory Condensor/farm/soil enricher reference made as we fully understand that is the most powerful late game square.

I agree of course, but I'm worried that I'll get a reputation for being a "one trick pony". Besides, the comparison was for fungus vs forest. I always use forest early, sometimes I use it longer, but usually I pave over it with advanced terraforming in the mid game. Fungus just isn't any good by the time it's any good.

	04-06-2003 17:17									#13
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I use fungus ONLY when I play Gaians. They get 2 food from it right from the start, which means it can be used for pop-booming without any terraforming done. This can be rather powerfull ally when you do a crazy ICS thin expansion (don't waste time on formers, just build colony pods and children's creche for pop-boom). All other factions need some serious terraforming and/or infrastructure to do a pop-boom upto 7-9.

	08-06-2003 12:44									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I have nothing to add here, except that in order to make King I'm going to need a lot more posts.

Sikander, did you get busted or something and lose all your posts? I can't believe that you would otherwise be in this position as I feel like I've read a King's-Worth of your posts already. (If you really are looking for the old +1's this will give you and excuse to get another.)

	09-06-2003 18:08									#15
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quote: I use fungus ONLY when I play Gaians. They get 2 food from it right from the start, which means it can be used for pop-booming without any terraforming done.

I agree since I play often as the gaians, as well.

Fungus may not be the best in terms of FOP, but I like it's overall "utility", especially with Xeno and Pholus. It's good as a strategic barrier and for concealment.

	09-06-2003 19:48									#16
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller Sikander, did you get busted or something and lose all your posts? I can't believe that you would otherwise be in this position as I feel like I've read a King's-Worth of your posts already. (If you really are looking for the old +1's this will give you and excuse to get another.)

Can you beleive Zsozso is a Prince too? We should start a +1 thread for these "SMAC Gods" guys.

-Jam

	09-06-2003 21:07									#17
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We already have a forum for that. It's called AC - Democracy Game.

	10-06-2003 03:58									#18
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Well said. And the Pirates nearly had a new recruit called Iskander. But haven't heard from him/her since. It would be good to get Sikander into the Pirates instead.

Kelp and tidal, kelp and tidal, an old Pirate motto

	10-06-2003 04:01									#19
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There he could offer lots of advice and frequently, on new tricks and old.

	10-06-2003 17:19									#20
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In the late game, when I have gone Democracy / Green /Wealth / Cybernetic (& hopefully have gotten the Manifold Nexus), I then make it a priority to build the Manifold Harmonics. Fungus then becomes VERY attractive. Unfortunatly I am often times loth to give up my valuable terraforming. However, in my conquested cities, the fungus becomes a God sent item for helping build up my economy at that point.

However, in the early game I *HATE* fungus! In that case, it is forest, forest, forest! At least untill boreholes become profitable!

	11-06-2003 16:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller Sikander, did you get busted or something and lose all your posts? I can't believe that you would otherwise be in this position as I feel like I've read a King's-Worth of your posts already. (If you really are looking for the old +1's this will give you and excuse to get another.)

No, I have never had a post count reduction. I haven't played any MP to speak of, which tends to crank up one's post productivity. Perhaps you have seen me post in the OT thread where they don't count. Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to build my count up once again. I'm just shooting for King, Emporer is beyond my expected lifespan at this rate.

	11-06-2003 16:46									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Hercules Well said. And the Pirates nearly had a new recruit called Iskander. But haven't heard from him/her since. It would be good to get Sikander into the Pirates instead. Kelp and tidal, kelp and tidal, an old Pirate motto

It sounds interesting, but my forays on to the internet are pretty much limited to work (by mutual agreement between my girlfriend and myself), and subject to occasional droughts of a month or more when I'm on vacation, or work gets really busy. I have tried to limit my long term obligations on the internet for this reason, including quitting the three RP games that I had been playing. Does the demo game have a link? Perhaps I might kibbitz a bit if that is allowed.

	12-06-2003 02:48									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

In fact the Demo Game is just the right place for you. As long as you are not the turn player you don't have to be there all the time and you can still offer your valuable experiences since there ARE quite some new players like myself who could benefit from experienced players like you.

	12-06-2003 11:46									#24
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Is your signature quotation from the Economist's judgement of President Hu Jintao, HongHu?

	12-06-2003 20:42									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

Surprised you noticed that one, Ali That's right and I think that fits me pretty well. Considering my inexperiency for the game and the last name Hu

	12-06-2003 21:10									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Does the demo game have a link? Perhaps I might kibbitz a bit if that is allowed.

In my sig

quote: Surprised you noticed that one, Ali

I've learnt never to be surprised by our Ali

-Jam

	12-06-2003 21:36									#27
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sikander No, I have never had a post count reduction. I haven't played any MP to speak of, which tends to crank up one's post productivity. Perhaps you have seen me post in the OT thread where they don't count. Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to build my count up once again. I'm just shooting for King, Emporer is beyond my expected lifespan at this rate.

Ya MP games put me where I am since each POBEM game is a couple of hundred posts.

As for the demo game, the beauty is that you can joinb a faction and be as involved or uninvolved as you want. You just have to accept what might get done in your absence. Since the demo game is actually 5 separate demo games played as a pbem, you could likely only kibbitz for one team ( likely by joining them) . So far only googlie gets to see everything.