03-06-2003 07:58									#1
	Towers and forts Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hey,

If you garrison military (or civilian) units inside towers and forts, do they fire more shots / more often? I realized I haven't been doing this...and it's just quicker to ask you guys than to test it myself

I hope so, because right now, towers and forts are kinda sucky...when it comes to helping you defend a city.

-Yoink(tm)

	07-06-2003 08:47									#2
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i also would like to know this, was searching but this is the closest i found
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ht=forts+towers

im guessing that they should

i'll try it out and let u know

- update -

yup towers and forts have a garrison power level (the bottom icon) which rises as u put troops in, increasing the rate of fire

light and heavy troops count for 1 point each and ranged foot count as 1.5 - not sure about mounted

Last edited by Lo Rez on 07-06-2003 at 09:26

	07-06-2003 09:42									#3
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Putting more troops in a tower or city does NOT increase the rate of fire.

	07-06-2003 09:49									#4
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Huh? Sure it does.

	07-06-2003 16:17									#5
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It increases the rate of fire when you garrison units in Forts, but I'm not sure about cities and towers.

	07-06-2003 16:45									#6
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It does for Forts & Towers. I think the 'Garrison Power' of the Fort is 6 & the Tower is 3. Any additional units beyond this make no difference. Don't know about the Town Centre though.

	07-06-2003 17:38									#7
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I'm certain that garrisoning units increases the rate of fire of all 3 - cities, towers, and forts. I know cities don't fire at all unless they are garrisoned (or unless you are Mayan). Cities, towers, and forts all have a power value that you can see when you select them. As you garrison units, that power rating goes up. Ranged units count more than non-ranged.

Also, garrisoned generals add to the range of the building.

	07-06-2003 17:45									#8
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Yup- they fire more arrows (not necessarily an increase in RoF, but an increase in the number of shots fired, which is virtually the same).

	08-06-2003 03:50									#9
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I guess I'm wrong, I am vastly outvoted, but I didn't see any increase when I put more people in the forts, towers or cities.

I will look again.

Here is what I saw originally: My city had one pathetic arrow in the early ages and one pathetic bullet in the later ages. This was regardless of how many were garrissoned, but like I said, I will take another look.

	08-06-2003 03:54									#10
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But anyway, does anyone actually garrison his towers with units? It seems to me that your units are more effective out in the open.

	08-06-2003 07:19									#11
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I checked. I filled up my city and my tower to capacity. No extra arrows for the city and one extra arrow, sort of, for the tower. The tower fired slightly faster. Harldly an effective defense.

	08-06-2003 08:10									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Nacht But anyway, does anyone actually garrison his towers with units? It seems to me that your units are more effective out in the open.

After a battle I always put my 'wounded' into the nearby Fort or Tower. Get him back up to health before the next battle. Saves a lot of resources having to replace numbers on the front line. The only exception, of course, is when I'm rapidly advancing through enemy towns on my way to his Capital when I have lots of surplus resources. Or if I have the Versailles Wonder. So, my 'wounded' in the towers or forts 'attack' from within if attacked while garrisoned. They can inflict damage on the nme without taking any damage themselves.

	08-06-2003 20:32									#13
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Garrisoning units in forts and towers (cities too) have another use. When you notice that one of your nearby units outside is being bribed by an enemy spy (little bubbles appear near it), you can sometimes keep the unit on your own team if it is garrisoned quickly enough.

	08-06-2003 22:41									#14
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If your micro is good then towers and forts can be a real lifesaver on defense. Their attack is nice, but I mainly use them to hide damaged units. As soon as I see a front line unit taking significant damage I select it and garrison it. I haven't seen the AI *not* rush into towers yet, even on tough, they don't seem to keep a distance and use siege very frequently.

Ungarrisoning a bunch of fresh, undamaged units after your enemy's units have suffered from attrition damage is a great way to mop up enemy forces.

	08-06-2003 23:03									#15
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solo, thanks for the advice regarding the "Tiny Bubbles." When I get occasional notices of a unit being bribed in the future, I will know what to look for.

*I would make more reference to the song, but I can't remember the lyrics.

	09-06-2003 00:52									#16
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Note that ranged infantry like archers and slingers and to the garrason strength more than non-ranged infantry. If you put 2 or 3 archers in a tower you will see a large increase in the rate of fire.

	09-06-2003 02:54									#17
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley I checked. I filled up my city and my tower to capacity. No extra arrows for the city and one extra arrow, sort of, for the tower. The tower fired slightly faster. Harldly an effective defense.

Sorry, but your wrong. Check the little box in the city/tower/fort stats window. It has a little tower with an arrow shooting out of it, and next to it it will say something like "1/3" for a tower, 0/2 for a city and 2/5 for a fort.

This is the rate of fire for that city/castle/fort. Forts have the greatest base rate of fire and the greatest max rate of fire, next is towers then cities.

Did this test yesterday, here's the resaults.

From greatest to least increase:

Archer line/gunpowder infantry > javalineers (and slingers) > Heavy infantry > Civilians.

	09-06-2003 06:43									#18
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So I'm wrong.

I already said I saw a slight increase in the rate of fire. The increase was certainly not enough for the fort or the towers to effectively defend themselves.

	09-06-2003 06:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Hendrik I haven't seen the AI *not* rush into towers yet, even on tough, they don't seem to keep a distance and use siege very frequently.

I beg to differ. On one of my most recent games, (Barbarians at the Gate - Moderate - Vs 2 ai opponents), the Romans used 8 Trebuchets against my forts & Towers, ringed by a mass of Caesar's Legions (their unique Pikemen ). I didn't even consider sending my 7th Cavalry in they would have been slaughtered. I had to 'Attack Move' my entire 8th Army forward (within firing range ) to take them all out. Lost most of my army too, but at least I destroyed their Trebuchets. They had about 5-6 Supply Wagons with them too & 5 Generals. Those Romans fight hard.

	09-06-2003 10:17									#20
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Garrisoning a general in your towers,forts(city I don't
know) also increase the attack(sword icon) and the
range power.Correct me if I'm wrong.

	09-06-2003 17:11									#21
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You can use the anchorage to heal wounded ships. I wonder if it shoots back when a ranged ship is docked. I 'm at work right now, I'll check this later.

	09-06-2003 18:51									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MosesPresley The increase was certainly not enough for the fort or the towers to effectively defend themselves.

i find the best part use of the forts (apart for extending boarders) is to force they enemy to fight a battle where u want him 2 - rather than outside one of your towns.

I for one wouldn't like to rush my army past a fully garrisoned fort and then have to fight a battle 2 take over a town (not to mention the troops from the fort would proberly attack my rear).

don't think anyones mentioned this but cavalry don't add to your garrion power, not even the ranged ones

what unit or tactic have people found best for destroying peoples seige and suppy units? at the moment i like bribeing them

	09-06-2003 20:31									#23
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I don't think you can bribe supply wagons.
Garrisoning units in your ally towers/forts
is an interesting option to use,when your
ally is at war with a civ which you are not.
The effects are the same.

	10-06-2003 02:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by solo Garrisoning units in forts and towers (cities too) have another use. When you notice that one of your nearby units outside is being bribed by an enemy spy (little bubbles appear near it), you can sometimes keep the unit on your own team if it is garrisoned quickly enough.

This made me smile only because just last night I FINALLY figured out what that spy "bubbles" animation really is. It's her throwing money to bribe the unit. They aren't bubbles...they're coins. If one of your caravans dies, you see a similar animation as the caravan's money spills over the ground.

Sorry for being off topic...but that came to mind...

	10-06-2003 02:26									#25
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quote: Originally posted by solo Garrisoning units in forts and towers (cities too) have another use. When you notice that one of your nearby units outside is being bribed by an enemy spy (little bubbles appear near it), you can sometimes keep the unit on your own team if it is garrisoned quickly enough.

This made me smile only because just last night I FINALLY figured out what that spy "bubbles" animation really is. It's her throwing money to bribe the unit. They aren't bubbles...they're coins. If one of your caravans dies, you see a similar animation as the caravan's money spills over the ground.

Sorry for being off topic...but that came to mind...

	10-06-2003 04:34									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Lo Rez i find the best part use of the forts (apart for extending boarders) is to force they enemy to fight a battle where u want him 2 - rather than outside one of your towns. I for one wouldn't like to rush my army past a fully garrisoned fort and then have to fight a battle 2 take over a town (not to mention the troops from the fort would proberly attack my rear). don't think anyones mentioned this but cavalry don't add to your garrion power, not even the ranged ones what unit or tactic have people found best for destroying peoples seige and suppy units? at the moment i like bribeing them

I fully agree.

	10-06-2003 07:42									#27
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quote: Originally posted by shirleyrocks They aren't bubbles...they're coins.

And where does that money goes afterwards? It's not that they live long and happy with that money considering that they are mostly bribed in the middle of a once friendly army that turns agains them...

	10-06-2003 11:00									#28
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I will use units inside the fort to lure enemy defending the siege into range of the fort then garrison. These will effectively remove some hot headed Calvary and pikeman from the group.

While this is going on. My Calvary will be deployed on side the enemy, while another ranged army will be deploy in front of them to lure the remaining pike and Calvary in will enaging the main body. Calvary will then move into kill siege units and archers.
Works every time if your Calvary is hidden from enemy view and enemy reinforcement is not around the corner.

	11-06-2003 09:26									#29
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This topic has already really been covered in this thread, but I thought I'd supply you guys with a link to a thread explaining about anything you want to know about Forts/towers etc concerning Garrisoning

Here

	11-06-2003 16:28									#30
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Has anyone else noticed that the ai puts a couple of Generals into Town/City centres when it's under attack?