04-06-2003 03:31									#1
	Proposal for a new scheme for selling techs Suffering from ads?

Okay, stay with me for a while, I'm just back from a pub so I'm probably not wording this as strait as I could.

On the way home, I was thinking on how to solve the situation with tech selling, and how no matter what we tried to do, we could not keep GoW from selling, or even given away 'our' tech, for their money or glory, depriving us of profits we should have had. This situation will only worsen as teams will start to be even less amicable to each other with the coming of Chivalry.
So, an idea, which might make researching profitable again.

What if we sell future tech to anyone who wants it for a decent price, at let's say 200 gold for a 800 beaker tech. We don't ask for a NDA, but we ask for something else: if team A, who we sell the tech to, sells it to team B, team A will be required to give us 100 gold extra. Further, they make the same promise, where if team B sells or gives it to team C, team A is required to give us another 100 gold.

It is in a team best interest to sell it on, and the beauty is that they can ask what they want. If team A charges team B 200 gold, they gain 100 gold, we gain 100 gold, and everyone is happy. If they want to trade cities, other techs, cats, luxs, or even give it away for free they can... as long as we get our 100 gold. They can also include additional clauses, so that they would be given the same scheme if they want to, because if team B deals it on, team A is required to give us 100 gold, even if they don't agree with the deal between B and C. And lastly, we commit to not selling it beneath our price of 200 gold, or a value equal to that, so that team A has a genuine chance of trading it on (this should give them an incentive to try to be swift in acquiring tech from us, instead of waiting until NDAs expire, or others can trade a tech onwards in another form)

The problem is of course that this is completely honor based: we have to make sure that, even if war would break out, we would not be double-crossed. But it's a fair system, and other teams are invited to propose the same agreement to us, we would be willing to except it. It gives back the incentive to do some research in this game, because as it looks now, all research has stopped, and this game will end in the age of knights.

I would be willing to try this out with the next tech we'll research, we can't stay on 0% research forever. Because we can we should try to race ahead in tech, it certainly would make winning this game a lot more easy. But I think everyone agrees that our last tech did not exactly help us, we lost a great deal of gold there, and now others are catching up in research ability.

DeepO

	04-06-2003 04:08									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I think we should hold out for better prices than 1/4 or 1/5, as the team trading for our tech is probably using the 'community fund' to do so. GoW giving away Feudalism to everyone makes me think at least a couple of the other teams helped them pay the 200g to us. In that case, we would be best off waiting for only tech for tech trades, otherwise everyone is getting the tech for 50g, while we are putting in 15-20 times that.

	04-06-2003 04:18									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Aeson, I wanted to address exactly that. In this scheme, we would be guaranteed 500 gold for a 800 beaker investment if eventually all 4 other teams (after Vox is dead) get the tech. And by selling it to others, we can gain more.

I agree that GoW probably paid us out of a community fund, but they can't do that under this plan, provided they keep to their word. But we still haven't seen any reason to assume otherwise, they have kept their word on the NDA, even if we were at 'war'.

DeepO

	04-06-2003 05:00									#4
	Support Apolyton

So if we sell a tech to one team for 200g (like we did GoW) and they give the tech to everyone else... then we've gotten the tech for roughly 600g, GoW for 200g, and everyone else for free. GoW basically pays 200g for the tech and better relations with everyone but us.

Then the next tech we sell to someone else for 200g... they give it away to everyone else for free... and we're the only ones really giving anything up for tech.

Maybe things will change once Lego gets their peaceful GA, or one of the Bob teams really cleans up in a war, as then we aren't the main target. Then maybe they'd be willing to work together out of necessity. As it is now, it feels like all the other teams are at least partially allied against us. Not quite a trade embargo, but close to it.

	04-06-2003 05:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

No, I wasn't too clear... if we sell a tech for 200 gold to GoW, and they give it away for free, they would be required, by contract, to give us 100 gold per team they give it to. In the end, we get 500 gold (600 including Vox), GoW pays 200 gold, and all the others pay 100. Of course, if GoW sells our tech for 150 gold, they make 50 gold each time, and we don't gain more from it... which is an incentive for them to resell the tech if they want. They can lower the costs amongst a few teams, e.g. agreeing to all pay 120 gold to GoW, who pays us 600 in total, but that is not of our concern. As long as we get a minimum of money, we don't care who gets the tech, even if they would be complete enemies.

The tricky part is to follow who sells the tech to whom, other then that, we should be guaranteed a decent income for each tech we sell.

DeepO

	04-06-2003 06:51									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ok, I had read it wrong. Sounds like a good idea to try.

	04-06-2003 08:28									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Too tough to manage.

	04-06-2003 15:26									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually, Feudalism saved us the game, in a way...

As it stands now, research has come to a halt as a result of ground level pricing and inter-team corporates. We have only two real simple solutions in this situation. 1) Infinite NDA and/or 2) Tech for Tech trades.

We could also consider just gaining ahead in tech. Perhaps we could bring the tech alliance with Lego back to life. Maybe after the Theology deal goes smoothly.

	04-06-2003 18:52									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I still think that tech-for-tech deals are our best bet, but if others think that it's worth a try, I wouldn't mind.

	05-06-2003 04:26									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Shiber, tech for tech deals have 2 major problems: not all tech partners end in time, and not all teams even research. We would still face conglomerates... let's say Bob only researches one tech while both Lego and ourselves go after another (which has been the situation the past few turns). They still gain money relative to us...

I know that what I propose will be not easy to manage, but it might be one of our only chances for fair trades. And if it works, it might give others the idea to also adopt it, in which case it would be a lot easier to control.

DeepO