04-06-2003 09:54									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Yeah... like the one time a bat exploded into flying pieces... and the super balls inside the bat went screaming in many different directions.

I remember that. And I don't recall superballs being specifically named in the Baseball rule book as a cheating agent.

	04-06-2003 09:56									#32
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It was funny though... Superballs...

	04-06-2003 10:42									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Wasn't there one pitcher that swallowed his sandpaper and suffered internal damage because of that?

I liked the old Preacher Roe answer when he was asked about greasing the ball:

"I didn't throw a Vaseline ball. I didn't have to, because I had a good spitter."

Phil "the Vulture" Regan was still the all time classic bust, though. Goes into his windup, kicks, and out pops a vaseline tube right out there on the grass in front of the mound. Don't bother with the pitch, pick it up (the vaseline), stroll over to the ump, toss him the ball, and walk to the dugout. Ump didn't have to do a thing.

	04-06-2003 11:48									#34
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I cannot condone this!!! Suspend his a$$ for 1 week!!! My fantasy baseball opponent this week has Sosa in his line up. Seriously, yes, cheating is more common in baseball, but I lost some respect for Sosa today. There are plenty of guys who aren't pulling this crap, and I certainly would never have cheated when I played ball. On the other hand, if the ump called me safe on a slide and I knew I was out, I wouldn't call the ump's attention to his mistake.

	04-06-2003 14:40									#35
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A rumor is spreading...Ming allegedly used a corked "banning bat" for his last 505 bannings

	04-06-2003 19:01									#36
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While it's a certainty he'll get suspended and that his alibi is both too typical and too obvious to be believed, I personally find it hard to believe that Sosa's been corking his bats all this time. We live in an era of extremely brittle weapons in baseball. Think about how many bats Sosa's shattered over the years - to only get caught now would be a mathematical near-impossibility.

	04-06-2003 19:10									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Bats have to be all wood, because a corked bat increases bat speed (allowing you to hit the ball harder). One reason is because it's unfair to have this edge. Another is that it might be dangerous to the pitcher.

Last time I looked cork was wood .

I think the rule for the major leagues includes that the bat must be made from a single piece of solid wood. A bat could be made completely from cork, it just wouldnt work very well.

	04-06-2003 19:38									#38
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Isn't the fact that there all on steroid and other drugs worse than what bat they are using

	04-06-2003 20:25									#39
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according to the Score:
"Sammy Sosa has now been put on the deck of cards with Iraqi leaders."

Imran: Wayne Gretzky was traded.... 'nuff said

	04-06-2003 20:35									#40
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What a jag bag. I'm sure this will forever tarnish his image, just like that one guy on that team that rigged the world series a long time ago.

	04-06-2003 21:05									#41
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quote: We live in an era of extremely brittle weapons in baseball. Think about how many bats Sosa's shattered over the years - to only get caught now would be a mathematical near-impossibility.

Bats usually break at the handle... where there would be no cork.

quote: Imran: Wayne Gretzky was traded.... 'nuff said

And looked what happened there .

	04-06-2003 21:11									#42
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Gaylord Perry never cheated, he just used, uh, unorthodox methods of ball handling. Yeah, that's it.

By the end of his games there would be a greasy trace from the dugout to the pitcher's mound. Catcher's had to change gloves every five throws because they became so slippery.

	04-06-2003 21:17									#43
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why not let them have cork bats, and have the pitcher wear some protective gear?

	04-06-2003 21:59									#44
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider What a jag bag. I'm sure this will forever tarnish his image, just like that one guy on that team that rigged the world series a long time ago.

Shoeless Joe Jackson, whose memory is referenced in the title of this thread... and on the headlines of every sports page in America, it seems.

	04-06-2003 22:50									#45
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I think it's funny he says it's just a practice bat for warmups. If I tried to tell a cop my joint was a warmup for my hand-rolled cigarettes they'd probably beat me with a stick and STILL throw me in jail.

He just threw his whole career in a bad light. Unfortunately it's harder to prove he didn't use cork throughout his career and this was a one night mistake than it is to conjecture he's cheated all along.

	04-06-2003 23:03									#46
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quote: Shoeless Joe Jackson, whose memory is referenced in the title of this thread... and on the headlines of every sports page in America, it seems.

Nah, it wasnt him. He didnt play that series like he was throwing it. He batted over 300, had 12 RBIs and hit the series only homer.

	04-06-2003 23:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And looked what happened there .

Yeah, Edmonton won another Stanley Cup in 1990 without Gretzky.

	04-06-2003 23:22									#48
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quote: Yeah, Edmonton won another Stanley Cup in 1990 without Gretzky.

But the fans went nuts... the owner was even more hated.

And I doubt by trading Sosa you'll still have the talent to win a World Series .

	04-06-2003 23:31									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Nah, it wasnt him. He didnt play that series like he was throwing it. He batted over 300, had 12 RBIs and hit the series only homer.

Neither I nor Monk claimed he did. Here was Monk's quote:

"just like that one guy on that team that rigged the world series a long time ago."

See? Neither of us assigned blame other than the bad luck of being on the team. That, and keeping mum about what he knew was wrong and illegal.

	04-06-2003 23:34									#50
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Baseball has got to be the most boring sport. well... maybe after golf, but than again, golf is not really a sport.

The guy cheated. So what. From what I've read on the news this is nothing new for baseball. If he did pick up a loaded bat by mistake, what was that illegal bat doing in the dugout in the first place? Why not mark those with some colored tape or some other easy to see markings?

Is 'sorry' good enough?? Had he hit a homerun (a 3 run homerun i think it would have been) it would have counted (no one would have known) and added to his total. hmmm... a cheat filled total. perhaps 10 games out and a post count reduction of say 100. opps - i mean hit reduction.

	04-06-2003 23:36									#51
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"And I doubt by trading Sosa you'll still have the talent to win a World Series."

I thought that's why they brought in Dusty "let's-put-in-the-pitcher-who's-gotten-blown-out-of-the-box-in-his-last-2-appearences-in-game-7-of-the-WS" Baker?

	04-06-2003 23:50									#52
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So says John"It's-easy-to-second-guess-7-months-after-the-fact"T

	05-06-2003 00:09									#53
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Dusty is also known for killing young arms. Prior better watch out .

	05-06-2003 00:14									#54
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quote: And I doubt by trading Sosa you'll still have the talent to win a World Series .

oh please... Sosa isn't a winner. What has Sosa won for them. Did Anaheim have a Sosa-type player? Hmmm guess not. In fact, if they can trade Sosa and get two solid players, the Cubs will be in a much better position. The Cubs also got to first place during the stretch of 14 or so games when Sosa was out. THe Cubs have pitching. That's what wins.

quote: Dusty is also known for killing young arms

Name some.

And if you knew anything about Cubs baseball, you'd know Dusty has handled the pitching staff well. The only decision that I would call bad, would be his tendency to play Alfonseca. And he's only doing that because Alfonseca is on the trading block.

Also, if you knew anything about Mark Prior, you'd know his mechanics are excellent. Dusty Baker can't do much of anything to "kill his arm".

	05-06-2003 00:33									#55
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quote: oh please... Sosa isn't a winner. What has Sosa won for them. Did Anaheim have a Sosa-type player? Hmmm guess not. In fact, if they can trade Sosa and get two solid players, the Cubs will be in a much better position. The Cubs also got to first place during the stretch of 14 or so games when Sosa was out. THe Cubs have pitching. That's what wins.

Yes, the Cubs may be in a better position, but they still don't have World Series caliber talent. They don't have the hitting without him (the bats you get back aren't going to be the quality of what you could have gotten for him). When Gretzky was traded by Edmonton, you still had Stanley Cup caliber talent in place.

quote: Name some.

Come on! Dusty is known for his old school high pitch counts.

Want me to name one? Ok, Livan Hernandez! He has thrown the most high pitch games (120+) in the majors over the last 5 years.

And as for treating the Cubs pitching staff well:

http://www.futilityinfielder.com/ar...ty_archive.html

Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker allowed Kerry Wood to throw an astounding 141 pitches in only seven innings Saturday

And evidence from the past:

http://www.baseballhq.com/free/free030214.shtml

Whereas the Cubs' managers last year were typical in their handling of starting pitchers, Baker had the distinction of allowing the most high-pitch outings among all managers.

Baker's reputation is to overwork starters and use only a small few excellent relievers in set roles at the end of games.

And:

http://longgandhi.com/052803.html

Much has been said about Wood's 141-pitch outing a few weeks ago. More should be said of his 113-pitch average per start. But at age 25, he's past the greatest risk age so I'm not convinced that injury is imminent. But it would be nice to see him get in a few low 100s pitch outings just to be safe. I am much more concerned about Mark Prior's 108-pitch per outing average at age 22 than I am with Wood's workload.

Dusty Baker has never been kind to young arms. Over his 10-year stay in San Francisco, his young pitchers endured some pretty heavy workloads and none of them improved their control as they became more acclimated to the majors. Not only did they not improve, but several spent time on the operating table during his tenure. It's possible, unfortunately, that we may find out more about the workload limits of young pitchers the expensive way in Chicago, even those who have already undergone reconstructive surgery.