05-06-2003 04:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Since I use Mozilla, I hate it whenever I must browse 'Poly on a IE-only machine.

This is exactly my feeling.

	05-06-2003 05:00									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by loinburger F'rinstance, I've typically got Winamp running and don't need to access it for any reason, yet it's still down there on my taskbar taking up space.

Go to your Winamp preferences. Under Option > Display, you can choose Winamp's display options:
1) Taskbar only
2) System Tray only
3) Taskbar and System Tray
4) None

Obviously, options 2) and 4) will remove Winamp from your task bar.

	05-06-2003 05:04									#33
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Sweet! That's one down...

	05-06-2003 05:07									#34
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Sweet! That's one down...

?? Care to explain this one?

	05-06-2003 05:11									#35
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I've often got several processes running to which I don't need quick access, so I'd rather that they not show up on my taskbar -- it makes it more difficult to access them, but it frees up space and prevents other processes from compacting too much. Winamp (which plays Mp3's) is one such program that I never need to touch, and thanks to Zopp's help it's now no longer clutters up my taskbar.

	05-06-2003 06:37									#36
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Agathon The average home user doesn't even know it can be moved.

I suppose it is kinda counter-intuitive, nobody would expect that in order to move it you click on it and drag it to where you want it to go.

quote: So it's highlighted when they are all hidden. Interesting.

Eh? Nothing's highlighted when everything's hidden.

quote: Your argument that the text helps is silly.

Indeed, it wouldn't at all be confusing if instead of text, Windows just had large colorful icons like OS X.

quote: Anyway, congratulations on turning a thread on tabs into some anti-Macintosh rant.

Hey, I'll take any shot I can, Lee.

	05-06-2003 07:06									#37
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In Windows is mostly a non-issue, since the taskbar lists all active windows so it's like having the tabs anyway.

I would have to move the taskbar to the left side of the screen to get the same effect as having the Opera pagebar set to Left.

Unfortunately, I would run out of space for buttons much faster if all apps shared the same tabbar. That would result in text being cutoff. Icon-only tabs are pointless.

And for the record, MS is moving away from MDI and will never implement tabbed browsing in IE. Look at Office, how it moved from MDI to MTI in 2000 and XP.

I don't know about XP, but the implementation is 2000 is equally braindead to the one in 97. I have added Next Window and Previous Window buttons to my Word menubar and use them to navigate between windows. The Windows taskbar sucks.

Usability studies have proven that MDIs are actually less effective in terms of functional use and ease of use. Hence why your Word docs now take up their own space on the taskbar rather than just a sub-window inside as Word taskbar entry. It's still under the same process, though.

Word never had a tabbar.

	05-06-2003 10:35									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Asher In Windows is mostly a non-issue, since the taskbar lists all active windows so it's like having the tabs anyway.

Actually, it is not. Afte subtracting the system tray and the quick launch bar, there's very little room left on the taskbar.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Usability studies have proven that MDIs are actually less effective in terms of functional use and ease of use.

Conducted by MS, no doubt, thus so anti-user in all respects.

	05-06-2003 10:41									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How is it cluttered when it's organized?

Lets see. Suppose I have 3 Word documents, 2 Excel documents, a Powerpoint document, and 6 IE windows all open at the same time, how the heck can I find anything on that miserable taskbar?

	05-06-2003 11:54									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Lets see. Suppose I have 3 Word documents, 2 Excel documents, a Powerpoint document, and 6 IE windows all open at the same time, how the heck can I find anything on that miserable taskbar?

Easy:

And no comment on the OSX skin.

	05-06-2003 12:01									#41
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Grrr Easy:

Ever seen a NT or 2K desktop? Run Office 2K on top, and you can't find anything at all on the taskbar.

	05-06-2003 12:09									#42
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I was IGNORANT of what tabbed browsers are Agathon, not STUPID. Stupidity is incapability to learn, and I am surprised you are ignorant of the difference.

If you are trying to sell the ideas of tabbed browsers, then pouring scorn on those who MIGHT support your ideas is an illogical way to go about it. If you seriously desire Utopia then you are going to have to modify your ideas on making friends and influencing people.

Of couse I can live without a tabbed browser. All anyone needs is air, water, food and a suitable climate.

	05-06-2003 14:50									#43
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I voted "No", but a few posts later I saw that tabbet browsing ment something completely different than what I thought it was... now I know that the vote should have been "Yes"...

	05-06-2003 15:27									#44
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I am the other way around - I don't actually like tabs. I always switch them off.

	05-06-2003 16:02									#45
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Like Zop I could easily manage without the tabs, but the mouse gestures are essential. They really should put them in IE, it's a very fast and intuitive navigation system.

	05-06-2003 16:24									#46
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Could someone please explain mouse gestures to me? Apparently they're fantastic, and if someone can tell me why they're that good I'll switch to a browser that uses them.

	05-06-2003 16:35									#47
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http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/MouseGestures/

Sorry, I would explain more fully, but have to run now. That site should help.

Bear in mind that in the latest version of Opera you can customise the mouse gesutres to suit your own needs.

	05-06-2003 16:37									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

actually, bollocks to that. This link is better: http://www.opera.com/features/mouse/index.dml

	05-06-2003 18:38									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Couldn't resist it, could you?

You indirectly insult IE with your first elitist post and you expect Asher not to respond?

You just basically asked for another Mac-PC debate eithout directly saying PC sucks.

quote: Anyway, congratulations on turning a thread on tabs into some anti-Macintosh rant.

Give it a break will ya? its obvious that all you wanted was asher to reply to ur first post.

	05-06-2003 18:47									#50
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I'm quite unable to live without tabbed browsing nowadays, and usually use no more than two windows in a browser that doesn't support tabs simply because I find it awkward to switch between them. Ctrl-tab, ctrl-chift-tab, ctr-t and ctrl-f4 are hardwired to my fingers. I open everything in new tabs. In fact, since the window manager I'm currently using doesn't have a taskbar nor any useful features to make having several windows on one workspace easier (snap-to-border, automatic positioning of new windows to avoid getting on top of old ones, titlebars), Mozilla's tabs are pretty much the only way of keeping several things on a single virtual desktop that I use.

	05-06-2003 20:34									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I really, really like tabbed browsers, but if Microsoft and Asher say otherwise, then I must be mistaken.

	05-06-2003 22:22									#53
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Tabs rule. Such an obvious improvement for those of us who tend to keep (*quick count*) 21 windows open at the same time.

But it's not the MS way so it must be wrong.

	05-06-2003 22:59									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Zero You just basically asked for another Mac-PC debate eithout directly saying PC sucks.

What's wrong with Mozilla for Windows?

quote: quote: Anyway, congratulations on turning a thread on tabs into some anti-Macintosh rant. Give it a break will ya? its obvious that all you wanted was asher to reply to ur first post.

No - I'd actually rather he hadn't since this was supposed to be about tabs and not the Macintosh (which doesn't offer tabs on all its browsers).

Anyway - sorry Cruddy - I was only joking. You are right you were ignorant, not stupid.

	05-06-2003 23:04									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Asher I can use both. I really don't care one way or another. I can see how awesome it'd be on the Mac when you're used to a braindead Dock, though. In Windows is mostly a non-issue, since the taskbar lists all active windows so it's like having the tabs anyway. Soon enough, you'll realize that the idea behind "tabbed browsing" can be extended to your whole computer, via the taskbar, and you'll wonder how you did without it. And for the record, MS is moving away from MDI and will never implement tabbed browsing in IE. Look at Office, how it moved from MDI to MTI in 2000 and XP. Usability studies have proven that MDIs are actually less effective in terms of functional use and ease of use. Hence why your Word docs now take up their own space on the taskbar rather than just a sub-window inside as Word taskbar entry. It's still under the same process, though.

And I cursed that fact with Office 2000 - they should have made it optional with Word as they did with Excel - fortunatley I don't work with this anymore... study my a$$ - there is always a percentage of people who will be worse off, and I was in that one at the time... all such decisions should be an - option, that you can at least switch to the old way of doing things if they made the "newer approach" default...

	05-06-2003 23:32									#56
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Love tabs, love Opera.

I only use IE when I need to d/l loads of .jpgs/flash animations with FlashGet.

	06-06-2003 00:03									#57
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I just DLed Opera, and it's good... but it seems to freeze up whenever I check my email (web based email). And I can't get Quicktime to integrate with it. Maybe I'll stick with IE...

	06-06-2003 00:17									#58
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Strange, QuickTime works just fine in my Opera...

	06-06-2003 00:22									#59
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Never tried Opera although I mean to some day. Mozilla and QuickTime work fine together.

If MS really cared about usability, they'd have a nice little checkbox to disable popups just like Mozilla and Opera do.

	06-06-2003 00:45									#60
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Yeah, I redownloaded it (it being Quicktime), and it still is giving me trouble. I don't know what is wrong.

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 06-06-2003 at 01:07