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Dominae
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I've become a rather casual participant in this game over the past few months, only bothering to check in with the Gathering Storm forum periodically, and this forum once in a blue moon. So I think I can provide an "outsider's perspective".
I'm surprised at how emotional people get with this game. Here are my disinterested thoughts:
1. This particular thread was in bad form. It goes without saying that giving Vox Iron to fight us will make us mad; saying so explicity is not required. What happens when you make something like that explicit is that people start thinking there's another message, most probably something along the lines of: "Gathering Storm is threatening us". I doubt that was Nathan's intention, but some more caution should have been exercised to ensure things were not taken the wrong way. What is intented to be said and what is conveyed are often two completely different things.
2. The very nature of this thread demonstrates a surprising obliviousness to the world diplomatic situation (as I understand it, admittedly imperfectly). Just a few turns ago everyone and their uncle had bad feelings toward Gathering Storm because of the whole Vox affair. Now we're "requesting" that no one give Vox Iron, which is, after all, "for your own good, since you could be attacked with your own Pikemen and Knights". That's pretty arrogant, IMO. What Gathering Storm should really be doing is praying the other teams will not give Vox Iron, and making steps to ensure this becomes a reality.
3. This is Civ3, and one of the best ways to fight your neighbor is to get another neighbor to fight for you. Thus, I see nothing reprehensible in any other team offering Iron to Vox. In fact, I would expect it. It is simply not right for Gathering Storm to expect that other teams will not give Vox Iron, in order to generate good will. Gathering Storm needs to suck up to the other teams, and not the other way around (even if Gathering Storm thinks they've done nothing wrong...this is definitely a pride issue!).
4. I'm surprised Gathering Storm has such little foreign affairs coherence. In fact, I'm wondering why our "public announcements" are such free-for-alls.
5. Now that I've knocked Gathering Storm, I'll knock the other teams too. My message for everyone else: chill. The members of Gathering Storm are good guys that just want to win this game. There is no reason to get angry at them for how they play. If Gathering Storm makes bad diplomatic decisions, just act in consequence. This is not a course in politics, diplomacy and morality here, although it may well feel like one sometimes; it is a game, with goals to win and have fun. Getting on Gathering Storm's back because they're arrogant a-holes is a waste of time. Make friends where you can, and leave everyone else alone (or, kick their butts in-game, but nothing more).
6. If any of the past few comments were "propaganda", all I have to say is that you're walking a thin line here: although you may achieve the desired effect (i.e. put you into a better diplomatic situation), you'll surely not make any friends along the way. Just look at how heated Vox and Gathering Storm were over our respective public war announcements/reports.
Edit: In no way do I think any Gathering Storm member is an "arrogant a-hole". For the most part, I think we've played the game very well, diplomacy included. In other words, I think Gathering Storm is a top-notch, honorable and mostly misunderstood team. Of course, I'll never convince any of you outsiders the truth of this...(I suppose you could all just ask Trip!).
Dominae
Last edited by Dominae on 06-06-2003 at 10:00
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
I think you are looking past some things, BigFree. Have another look at that thread. I will not presume to speak for all members of GS, but I know how I view Togas' words there, and in a chat afterward.
Yes, he has refined it to 'some members' of GS. That is not how it started, from my POV. |
My GOD does it ever end? I suppose this is what I deserve for having the gaul to publicly call into question the motives of NYE and whoever he was speaking for, which I mistakenly thought was his whole team. I posted my mistake and apology when I learned that I was indeed wrong.
Maybe this will fix it: NYE -- you are right and I am wrong. You are smart and I am dumb. I am secretly ordering my Roleplay goons to attack your team because I have some irrational vengence against you all which relates to my own paranoia and need for institutionalization/medication.
Feel any better? No? Perhaps we should knock off this personal grudge between us and get back to business. You know as well as I do that using "bad feelings" as an excuse for foreign policy is retarded. I know GS is too smart to do that and I know that my people are too smart to let me do that. Let's quit pretending that anyone with half a brain might think so.
I was serious about the olive branch. I don't hate DeepO and I don't hate GS. I don't have some secret plot to destroy GS, I just want my team to do well and to be succesful in this game, and if that means being at peace and cooperating with GS I have no problem with that.
If GS wants to talk to us, please contact us via PM BigFree or GodKing. I'd be happy to see our teams grow past these accusations and suspicions. I know my team would be releaved as well. No one wants a flame war, especially since we haven't done anything to each other to warrant such bad feelings.
--Togas
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mrmitchell
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Olive branch = peace offering.
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06-06-2003 09:04
for your whole post Dom. 
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