08-06-2003 04:55									#31
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What BigFree has done on behalf of the team has been done with full knowledge of the team and in truth has been on behalf of the team.

dejon may have worded his statements strongly, but I do not believe any malice was intended BigFree. We are a team and friends. Disagreements are common, but just remember, thay are differences of opinion, no more. We are all friends now and shall continue to be.

(Jeez, sometimes I feel like a mommy with a bunch of 2 year olds).

Ghost of GK

	08-06-2003 07:58									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

BigFree, I apologize for letting my strong opinions on this get the best of me and turn into a battle with you. I truly feel that you have been an invaluable addition to the team. While I still disagree with you, and also with the leeway you have with our foreign affairs, I respect you and your opinion.

Personally, I do not recall any discussions about how close we should get to Vox prior to these latest events. To my recollection, this is the first poll/discussion that relates the them. However, I was away for a time, and only visit IRC occasionally, so I could be mistaken.

Regardless, I have now let my feelings be known and made numerous arguments for my opinions. I will now let the matter go and let the team decide for itself.

One final note, just in case the first paragraph isn't enough to convince you I meant no harm, you might like to know that I think you are the Roleplay team member with the most zest for this game, and thus, one of the most indepensible.

	08-06-2003 10:07									#33
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Thank you dejon, it means a lot to me to hear you say that about me. I do give this game a lot of thought and effort, but I don't feel that my opinon should count for any more than anyone else's.

I totally accept your apology dejon and I, likewise, offer mine if my post was worded too strongly as well. I would like very much to consider you guys to be my friends on this team.

I value all opinons, big or small, from all member's. This is a team game and we should all have a say in what Spain does in the game.

I urge all member's to join the chat channel whenever possible, if only to idle while you are reading the forums, checking e-mail, or doing your PBEM turns. A lot of good inof is passed around in there sometimes, of course with all the usual spam from mrmitchell thrown in as well

	08-06-2003 19:43									#34
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(hands Big Free a hanky)

	08-06-2003 20:55									#35
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quote: How much do you trust them?

I don't. At best, we and GoW can go against ND when ND strikes first, and at worst, they both decimate us for land gain. A sneak attack on Storm (Operation Desert Storm ) could have a little good, but think about all the units we'd need to send over. However, the game is about risks like that.

quote: of course with all the usual spam from mrmitchell thrown in as well

Of course! Whut would a chat be without me!?

	09-06-2003 00:10									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by GodKing If we do give iron, there are two courses we must take. First, to assure that a blockaid doesn't occur, we can also give GS a lux (a gift - that way, if they declair war on us to effect the blockaid, they loose the lux). Second, we plan on an invasion from them, and beat them to the punch by sneak attacking them. If we capture any cities of theirs, we gift them to Vox or burn them down. Our objective is not to capture territory, but to eliminate the ability of the enemy to make war. We must act from now on that a state of war exists, even if it is not declaired. Ghost of GK

From my posting in the 370BC orders thread:

quote: With GS not having a harbor that WE know about (they might have one in a dark city), HOW can we trade a Lux to them?? They don't want to trade maps, that's Info that can be used Militarily against them (it's worked somewhat for them so far), so if they do have a harbor, we won't likely get the information that we need to trade them a Lux. Also, If we tell them WHAT cities that we do know about, then the fact that we have already gotten GoW's map (secret Info) would very likely get back to GoW. And if we do tell them what cities that we know about, do we ask them (nicely) to drop their Military production and build a harbor?? Both of these aren't likely, not without a long IRC conferance with them, so what do we need those extra Luxes for right now??

So, what are we to do about this??
NW had suggested that we trade our only Iron to Vox, this will keep us from using it for now, and we can build warriors and spearmen for future upgrades, then connect the Other Iron.

I'm also against this, as it will show that we need Iron to GS, but then we could say that our Iron moved..... Would that show on their map or not (without a map trade)?? This is something that needs to be tested and verified.

E_T

	09-06-2003 00:21									#37
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

We cannot lie about our Iron, it does show up on GS's map, even if it moved, it would reappear to them if they could see that tile. They would also see if it had moved from a tile also if they could see it before it moved.

If they do not have a Harbor, we can suggest to them that they build one. However, I believe that if we give Vox Iron, GS will forgoe the luxery and opt for the blockade; I know I would. With that in mind, we need to have another Harbor...

	09-06-2003 00:25									#38
	Tired of ads?

Who would they blockade, Us or them??

I they blockage us, then we will lose the trade with GoW (and the possiblity of trading Iron with GoW when we need to).

I still haven't voted but I say no.

E_T

	09-06-2003 00:40									#39
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A couple of catapults and one Galley, viola, blockade gone. They would likely blockade Vox, so that they can keep an eye on them at the same time as well as GoW. It takes 4 Galley's to blockade Barcelona and 3 Galley's to do it to Wittlich City.

	09-06-2003 00:48									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yeh, if they do send a blockade fleet, it will be loaded for bear...

E_T

	09-06-2003 00:52									#41
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I just now voted against it, but if we do deside to trade tehm our Iron, the Price should be Republic (from whoever, GoW maybe) and a big discount on techs from Vox.

E_T

	09-06-2003 01:54									#42
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FYI, we can't send iron to Vox, since they don't have a Harbor (F4 screen *trades* checked from the 410 bc save).

The same occurs with GS.

	09-06-2003 02:41									#43
	Remove this text

as of the 370BC save, we can send Iron to them, I tried and it would accept trading our only Iron.

E_T

	09-06-2003 03:25									#44
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by E_T as of the 370BC save, we can send Iron to them, I tried and it would accept trading our only Iron. E_T

OK

	09-06-2003 23:43									#45
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They (GS) would declair war on us, but only blockade Vox's harbor(s). The way a blockade works in civ3, you have to have all the water tiles in the harbor city filled with units (doesn't matter what kind, just some waterborn units) AND you must have war declaired on with the TWO civs that are trading. If you only have war declaired wiht one civ, the trade goes through. Also, as we don't have a map yet in game, our trade routes cannot go across those black squares, so we are limited in how our routes work.

	10-06-2003 02:43									#46
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One thing I discussed with BigFree in chat was the possibility of sending Iron to Vox in exchange for tech or money, and not sending any units.

It is becoming unlikely that they will finish Engineering so Operation Engineering Payment may be a dud, we'll see. Perhaps we could ask for Theology from Legoland and Republic from Vox in exchange for us giving them iron for 20 turns?

If we do pull back and don't send units to fight GS we have a very good chance of establishing decent trade relations with GS. Our chat with them was positive and we are beginning to open up to the possibility of convincing GS not to invade us next ... to perhaps invade Legoland next who was giving money to Vox JUST to fight GS ... we gave money to Vox in exchange for tech.

Our goal will be to get the most out of this war as possible. We should encourage Vox to keep fighting, but start preparing to mend fences with GS as it will end badly for Vox. Plus, having those military units back in Spain helps us a lot more than having them die in a pointless attack against GS pikemen.

Perhaps our ships can do some further exploration and discover the lost island around Legoland?

--Togas

	10-06-2003 03:21									#47
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Yes! Reading the chatlog with GS, I am very happy with the performance of all involved (yes, including BigFree ).

I won't say, "I told you so.", with regards to what I said about the opportunity presented by the current state of affairs and the thread in the public forum. (Oh, maybe I just did. )

While noble, it doesn't make rational sense to stick to our original arrangement for Engineering with Vox, and I'm sure they'll understand that. Re-negotiations are a part of life, in pro-sports and demo games.

Some may suspect (as we in the RP Team are prone to) that GS is preparing us for a backstab, but I think it's highly doubtful, considering their inexperience with diplomacy.