06-06-2003 20:44									#1
	Peace with Vox? Full PM-box? Change here!

Are there conditions under which we should be willing to make peace with Vox with them still on the continent? I'm posting a poll to determine whether peace will be possible at all, and the thread can be used to discuss exact terms.

Letting Vox keep Elipolis would actually be viable as long as Vox agrees to coordinate culture so that Inchon and a second city, "Tripwire," 9-9 from Inchon always have higher culture. With those two cities plus the cultural advantage, Vox would be bottled up as effectively as they would with our having a city at Inchon 8 but with Vox having stronger culture in Harry's Hideout than we do there. (Tripwire would be easy for Vox to take as the opening move of an invasion, but Inchon would still control the key tiles Vox would have to move through even after Tripwire falls.) I'm not promoting the idea (I'm fairly ambivalent about the possibility of peace); just presenting an analysis of our options since this is one that hadn't occurred to us before.

	06-06-2003 20:52									#2
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No
despite recent events I can't see anyone coming to their aid.

	06-06-2003 20:52									#3
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As long as this stays as a 1v1 war, and as long as we're winning, I say we shouldn't accept peace under any terms.

Do we really expect to play the whole game with Vox on our continent? I can't see it myself, but others might disagree. I see no value in making peace now only to go to war and finish them off in 40 or 50 turns.

We may never again have a chance this good to claim the continent for ourselves. We should take it.

	06-06-2003 21:00									#4
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Yes, while we can get something out of Vox.
I get the feeling that they're going to take a "scorched earth" approach if we refuse peace altogether.
I suggest to add the following demands to Vox's proposal:

1. Nathan's comment regarding culture in Eliopolis.
2. Vox will surrender three catapults and two slaves to GS.
3. The state of war between GS and Vox will continue on the in-game level. This is so we can maintain our negative war weariness.

	06-06-2003 21:08									#5
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I've voted "no" - we want to win this game, and that, in civ terms, means killing off all the other civs in all likelihood. We will never have a better chance to finish Vox - or at least sweep them off the continent - than we do right now. Their core is badly protected, most of their military stuck around D'ville, and at the moment they don't have the money or resources to upgrade their spearmen and warriors. Since we can secure our continent, settling for anything less is rather sub-optimal IMHO.

	06-06-2003 21:10									#6
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No, of course. If Vox has a future, it's on Bob or Legoland, for that I don't care.

	06-06-2003 21:18									#7
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No, with the same remark as SR: if they're off our continent, they can have peace without any further demands (perhaps against their WM).

Indeed, we'll probably never be this close again to claiming our continent in full, and seeing as we'll most likely need to stay off Bob for a while longer, we need the space to expand to. If Vox uses scorched earth, we won't win pop, which is a pity, but we still would win territory. And we need more territory very soon if we want to keep up.

DeepO

	06-06-2003 21:25									#8
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I voted, "I don't especially care one way or the other."

	06-06-2003 23:29									#9
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I want to say no, but we must plan accordingly. If I was vox, I would go ahead and pull all my troops back to D'Vill and then gift the city to RP, Lego or ND (we are at war with GoW, so it does not make sense. That pond is already muddy.'

This way VOX gets an influx of 5-10 units in their capitol to beef up defenses when they gift D'ville.

We must plan on taking D'vill the by turn it switches hands as well as have adequate forces in our northern front to overcome Voxes beefed up defences.

Then we can say No Peace for the wicked...

Mss

	07-06-2003 00:29									#10
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If that would happen, we would have all moral rights to demand that city to be handed to us or to take it by force. Remember when Vox settled on Bob and all 3 Bobian civs cried unisono "You abandon that city or else...". Nobody would have the moral right to complain, if we did the same.

	07-06-2003 00:47									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph If that would happen, we would have all moral rights to demand that city to be handed to us or to take it by force. Remember when Vox settled on Bob and all 3 Bobian civs cried unisono "You abandon that city or else...". Nobody would have the moral right to complain, if we did the same.

True, but we should be prepared in any case, Force might be necessary. My main concern is the sudden transport of immortals and pikemen into Voxland.

Mss

	07-06-2003 01:57									#12
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No, it would go against every civ instinct I have. Why would you fight a war up to the point where you have the advantage and then stop? (no mater what bold statements your opponent might make)

	07-06-2003 03:50									#13
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I think we should eliminate Vox from the game. Their free tech will throw too much out of whack in the tech race (at about the most important point in the race, just before ToE), and it's almost certain we'd be the ones left out.

	07-06-2003 03:51									#14
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What are we, the first Bush administration?

I voted no.

	07-06-2003 04:04									#15
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I eventually voted no, mainly because I learned that when you are doing well againsty an opponent, that it would be a waste of time and resources to declare peace and then have to finish them off at a later date.

mss

	07-06-2003 05:19									#16
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With the war in our favor, peace now will only play against us. Controling this continent should be our goal- I don't care about Vox If they are out of the contnent. Let's not get cocky with our invasion. That is going to be bloody, no matter how well we do it.

I don't mind telling Vox we are willing to have peace, if they leave...

	08-06-2003 18:18									#17
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I'm going along with the NO- voters here.