09-06-2003 22:55									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by ChristopherC Was it too much to ask for the code patch to allow games on which you are presently engaged to be played? I am in the middle of a very long and taxing though enjoyable one and would hate to give up on it.

As mentioned it's not that rare for a code patch to make save games incompatible. I have a game or two that I sarted hoping I could finish with the patch as well, but oh well, I'd still rather have the patch.

One question... How are you having a "long and taxing" game when the AI in the pre-patch game was virtually non-existant??

quote: It seems to me I should wait for the revised code patch, which is compatible with the data patched game (one hopes!), before modifying the game. Live long and prosper.

From the comments I have seen the "beta" state of the patch has more to do with the way the installer works and not the effect it has on saves from the pre-patch version.

	10-06-2003 04:51									#32
	PD bug Full PM-box? Change here!

I seem to still get the infamous PD bug occasionally, or at least the AI does.

Anyone else?

	10-06-2003 05:14									#33
	Remove this text

Ok, well the main things I would have liked to see changed: (in order of importance)

- More convenient ship design (a'la MoO2)
- More influence and feedback in combat (including better graphics)
- Ship refit
- Thorough rightclick info on items and stats (a'la MoO2)
- Less fighting against planetary governors AI
- Leaders that actually matter and stay for a long time
- less erratic diplomacy
- Stats on stuff you research (as in hard numbers)

I am sure theres tons more but I havent played for so long that these are the only things that come to mind immediately. I think some of these things were adressed in mods. But the most important havent, and as far as I can tell they haven't been addressed by the code patch either...

So yes, basically I would like to see a MoO 2,5... But I could even live with MoO3 if only they would fix that which was good in MoO2 but is bad in MoO3 (Ship design, combat to a degree, I agree turn based fleet combat aint gonna work perfectly but the current system is even worse., Leaders, rightclicks, ship refits)....
But apparently they dont...

No wonder today you can earn $ 2.01 if you take a copy of MoO3 off Amazon.com hehehe

Lata
Krait

	10-06-2003 06:34									#34
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by beandip242 Finally got the patch downloaded, and loaded. I was expecting more from the patch really. Playability is better. I ahve not found the AI to be anymore aggressive though, but it is still early in my game. But I usually have at least 1 AI civ at war with me by now though........ Still having DX errors!!!!! Had 2 in this game already! On the second one the game just quit! thought this was to be fixed??????????????????????? and the other bug is when I click on a link from the sitrep for a specific col, then go back to the sit rep and click on a link for a newly explored star system and I go right back to the specific col page, not the new star system. Have to get out of the sitrep and use the Gal map to view the new star system. Not a big deal, but it is new since the patch. It just seems that the developers dropped the ball with the initial release, and are now having to play catch up big time, and are still fumbling along the way. Lets just hope the game gets enough of a boost out of this patch, so another(better) patch will be possible!!!

I believe the DX errors isnot MOO3 fault but the fault of MS Direct X programs. I have afew game that went back to desktop on me for no reason in the past or have the computer reboot itself after craching when change graphic
display on me. I have one DX error so afar restart game from autosave with no ploblen and play 20 or 30 more turns with no DX error. Now the games like MOO3 are laying the blame where it belong on MS(MicroSoft).

	10-06-2003 06:57									#35
	Increase the size of your Attachments

With the earlier mods I got around most of what the Code patch offered. But the one area that has remained constantly bad thru MODS and Patches is Diplomacy.
Even QSI seems stiffled in how to fix it.
First you get NO real feedback on what they are even saying or complaining about. They almost always speak in riddles "as they angrily tell you they appreciate you
And despite visual differences they all seem to have the exact same personality!!
In MOO's predecessors , they introduced themseles, had some type of personality (shy, aggressive,etc) and you darn well knew what they wanted or were mad about (even if you were framed)
Until this is fixed,, it's just not going to hold any lasting interest for me.

	10-06-2003 07:15									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by krait23 Ok, well the main things I would have liked to see changed: (in order of importance) 1- More convenient ship design (a'la MoO2) 2- More influence and feedback in combat (including better graphics) 3- Ship refit 4- Thorough rightclick info on items and stats (a'la MoO2) 5- Less fighting against planetary governors AI 6- Leaders that actually matter and stay for a long time 7- less erratic diplomacy 8- Stats on stuff you research (as in hard numbers)

Let me see:
1 - 3 haven´t changed a lot from pre patch, so you will be disappointed there.
as for 4. there have been some changes. If there is for aexample another race which proposes a tech deal, you can right-click onto the technologies and see the complete description of the tech as well as which technology Level it is. There are other parts of the game where the right-click is also implemented.

5 has somehow become more extreme. The planetary governor now has the habit of building a lot of System Colonyships. Was probably implemented to let the AI-Players colonize more than just one Planet per System, but for the human player it means that you´ve got to be constant on watch or you end up having lots of System Colonyships in one System, but no System Defenceships.

6 depends on the other races you encounter. I had (after Patch) one game where I encountered the Evon. The result was, that my Leaders survived only a few turns.
But in my current game where I am in the Senate and have contact to a couple of other races (but the evons aren´t in the game) my Leaders survive. I have Problems with spies regularly blowing Seats of Government up, but my leaders remain untouched.
Looks like they maybe have tuned down the amount, most other races use spies against you (unless your enemies are evon )

7 is a little bit better now after patch. The other races don´t start Wars as frequently as they did before the patch. They also don´t change their attitude towards you as abruptly.

8 is now better than before. There are lots of new stats in the game. You can see what the technology does in numbers and inn case of Planetary Buildings even, what the likelyhood is, that they get destroyed if the planet is bombarded.
If you look at the planetary infrastructure you get the Population of every region (current/max) their Unrest Level, the Modifier for Mining and Harvesting the region gives you and even the Habitability Ring for the Race currently inhabiting the region of the Planet.
There is also a Diagram in the Victory Screen which you can access during the game, where you can see, how well your races developes against the other races (of course only the races you have contact with) in terms of Number of Planets, Population, Technology and Score.

Maybe those infos help

	10-06-2003 07:35									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by statusperfect where to put the files? cheers

Directions are posted here!

	10-06-2003 07:41									#38
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff I believe the DX errors isnot MOO3 fault but the fault of MS Direct X programs. I have afew game that went back to desktop on me for no reason in the past or have the computer reboot itself after craching when change graphic display on me. I have one DX error so afar restart game from autosave with no ploblen and play 20 or 30 more turns with no DX error. Now the games like MOO3 are laying the blame where it belong on MS(MicroSoft).

Sorry Charlie, I hate MS just as much as the next guy, but it is painfully obvious when a company (QS) can manage to break the Bink API that it is not a DirectX problem!

	10-06-2003 07:57									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kahn Sorry Charlie, I hate MS just as much as the next guy, but it is painfully obvious when a company (QS) can manage to break the Bink API that it is not a DirectX problem!

I have games from bioware, interplay and afew order that crach on me when graphic was changeing for some reason unknow. In the last two year I have about 40 to 60 just crach alone. The thing I donot like is that you cannot unintrall Direct X and install than older or new version of Direct X.

	10-06-2003 09:57									#40
	Just experience... Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff I have games from Bioware, Interplay and a few order that crash on me when graphic was changing for some reason unknown. In the last two year I have about 40 to 60 just crash alone.

Unfortunately the gaming marketplace has bred some pretty shoddy releases from some of the more unscrupulous publishing houses out there. Bioware I have not had any experience with, but Interplay has been known for some time to release buggy merchandise, long enough for many gamers to shy away from them (though IMHO I do not feel they are the worst by a long shot.) You don’t have to use DirectX to have a bad piece of software, just look at Simon & Schuster Interactive, haven’t seen even one release that would run without crashing out-of-the-box! No DX at all, just plain bad programming. Many games you have may be crashing because of bad implementation of DirectX, not DX itself. For the ones that crash on startup, if you change your display resolution to match the resolution of the game screen, you should find that most will run OK. This is a result of the programmer not checking the screen metrics (GetSystemMetrics) and changing the resolution before attempting to draw the DX screen. This is a commonly encountered problem and is not the fault of DX, just lazy programming.

I would suggest that if you want to see some examples of good programming in DX, look at releases from Blizzard, CaveDog (at least TA was good), and most of EA’s releases (though they have had a few dogs). In terms of programming complexity Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Rainbow Six & Civilization III all run rings around the simplistic MoO3. Heck, even this web page is more complex that any of the GUI’s in MoO3, and it don’t crash.

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff The thing I don’t like is that you cannot uninstall Direct X and install than older or new version of Direct X.

Actually, you can! Though these are third party tools, I have used them with no ill effects (though I always followed up by reinstalling the version of DX I wanted on my machine).
Here is an example of one of the better ones.
Here are some others...

	10-06-2003 23:46									#41
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Most of these crach happen while in the middle of the game,
the worst one was Dungeon Seige.

Do anybody have any idear where I can download Vbe 2.0 which I need to play Battlespire it some type of video program I grather.

	11-06-2003 05:25									#42
	Remove this text

- AI building too many System Colony ships and Transports.

I am still constantly babysitting and micromanaging the AI.

-AI is using Espionage WAY too much on human players.

Oppression is driving me insane. My people are revolting and the costs are high to keep them in check. I have so many spies I've lost count. All of which are doing internal security. I'm not losing to espionage but the constant baby sitting of oppression and money put towards unrest is getting tedious. I lost 4 leaders to assasination and that is with a tonne of internal security and such oppression my people are revolting.. Mind you I have killed litterly hundreds of spies at this point... go figure...

-Tech Speed too fast.

Grey's mod really does improve the game when the tech is slowed down. You get to actually use some of the tech you have spent all that money on researching =) Do altered spreadsheets work in multiplayer? Does the host require the update or will both clients function independently allowing one player to speed up his tech?!?!

-Alt Tab problems still.

I am still having problems when alt tabbing except instead of a surface error my mouse cursor looks funky and when clicking on things the target is way off to the left even tho the mouse cursor is in the right place. In effect it still doesn't work. Nothing I do will fix this. Latest Nvidia drivers and Direct X etc etc...

-Tech Sliders won't lock.

At first it seemed if I left one unlocked they would remain the same but they just change when they feel like it... Why have a lock if this is the case?


I am just getting my military up and running now so combat will be much more common. PD BETTER be working along with planetary bombardment of military targets or I'm going to break something...

	11-06-2003 06:39									#43
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Re: tech sliders, I recall hearing someone mention somewhere that if you only lock 5 of the 6 sliders, they'll all stay put. Counter-intuitive, but perhaps that's poetic.

	11-06-2003 08:41									#44
	Got spare money?

Yeah that was me that said that about the sliders as it did appear to work but after playing a while you soon realize that you can't really lock them...

	11-06-2003 11:49									#45
	Tired of ads?

How well is that "Advance game x number of turns" feature working?

	11-06-2003 12:20									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The inability to lock the tech sliders is irritating. I've also noticed that the CLEAR QUEUED button on the Ship Design screen doesn't work!

I also hate it that I have to reset my preferences (namely view and sorting options on the Planets Screen) every time I start the program and it's not possible to "save" race picks (although you can reset them to default).

BTW I've read that it's possible to see which race is "in" colony ships. Does anyone know how you do this?

	11-06-2003 12:47									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by BobD The inability to lock the tech sliders is irritating. I've also noticed that the CLEAR QUEUED button on the Ship Design screen doesn't work! I also hate it that I have to reset my preferences (namely view and sorting options on the Planets Screen) every time I start the program and it's not possible to "save" race picks (although you can reset them to default). BTW I've read that it's possible to see which race is "in" colony ships. Does anyone know how you do this?

The form taskforce screem tell you which races is on the colony ship I believe.

	11-06-2003 18:48									#48
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by KWAiRT - AI building too many System Colony ships and Transports. I am still constantly babysitting and micromanaging the AI.

Just do the same as pre-patch. Obsolete any transport/system colony designs when there are too many of them.

IMO it seems that other than this "mass system colony/transport" bug, the AI is generally quite good at allocating production of combat ships designed by the player. (My dev plan is very simple. Primary: Infrastructure, Secondary: Military and the last one is Research. I do this for ALL Planets. Can't be bothered with the other classifications)

quote: -AI is using Espionage WAY too much on human players. Oppression is driving me insane. My people are revolting and the costs are high to keep them in check. I have so many spies I've lost count. All of which are doing internal security. I'm not losing to espionage but the constant baby sitting of oppression and money put towards unrest is getting tedious. I lost 4 leaders to assasination and that is with a tonne of internal security and such oppression my people are revolting.. Mind you I have killed litterly hundreds of spies at this point... go figure...

Well, I do find the consistent murdering of military leaders annoying. If it helps, you should just concentrate on building political spies. I think any spy works as internal security against any other type of spy, and political spies build the fastest.....

quote: -Tech Speed too fast. Grey's mod really does improve the game when the tech is slowed down. You get to actually use some of the tech you have spent all that money on researching =) Do altered spreadsheets work in multiplayer? Does the host require the update or will both clients function independently allowing one player to speed up his tech?!?!

No comment. But personally, I have no problems with the tech speed post-code-patch.

quote: -Alt Tab problems still. I am still having problems when alt tabbing except instead of a surface error my mouse cursor looks funky and when clicking on things the target is way off to the left even tho the mouse cursor is in the right place. In effect it still doesn't work. Nothing I do will fix this. Latest Nvidia drivers and Direct X etc etc...

Well... did you do a clean reinstallation of MOO3? It might help. I am lucky to have not experienced this problem at all post-code-patch

quote: -Tech Sliders won't lock. At first it seemed if I left one unlocked they would remain the same but they just change when they feel like it... Why have a lock if this is the case? I am just getting my military up and running now so combat will be much more common. PD BETTER be working along with planetary bombardment of military targets or I'm going to break something...

P.D. definitely works. I used to build only IF/Carrier fleets pre-code-patch, but now Short-Range Fleets with light mount weapons work fine. However, PD does not stop ALL missiles/fighters if they come en-masse, which makes sense IMO.

Sometimes missiles will suddenly "uncloak" in front of me and the PD doesn't fire - I solved this by adding a few PD missiles to my ships... when these missiles launch in the general direction of the enemy, they reveal any "cloaked" missiles, allowing me to shoot them down. It actually makes Spinal mounts quite useful

	11-06-2003 18:51									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by BobD The inability to lock the tech sliders is irritating. I've also noticed that the CLEAR QUEUED button on the Ship Design screen doesn't work!

If I'm not wrong, Clear queued only removes ships which are in the second and third slots of a planetary build queue. It does NOT remove a ship which is currently under construction. I think this is mainly because you've already spent money on it, and may not really want to "clear it".

	11-06-2003 22:09									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by masotime If I'm not wrong, Clear queued only removes ships which are in the second and third slots of a planetary build queue. It does NOT remove a ship which is currently under construction. I think this is mainly because you've already spent money on it, and may not really want to "clear it".

You are absolutely right. It's the second and third slots that I'm talking about. These slots are not cleared when I use the new button.

	12-06-2003 01:50									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by KWAiRT Yeah that was me that said that about the sliders as it did appear to work but after playing a while you soon realize that you can't really lock them...

Actually, in my experience, you are quite right. However, it seems to only keep them locked one turn; each turn, all of them are unlocked, and the AI does eventually adjust them if you don't re-lock 5 each turn.

	12-06-2003 03:42									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by krait23 Ok, well the main things I would have liked to see changed: (in order of importance) - More convenient ship design (a'la MoO2) - More influence and feedback in combat (including better graphics) - Ship refit - Thorough rightclick info on items and stats (a'la MoO2) - Less fighting against planetary governors AI - Leaders that actually matter and stay for a long time - less erratic diplomacy - Stats on stuff you research (as in hard numbers) I am sure theres tons more but I havent played for so long that these are the only things that come to mind immediately. I think some of these things were adressed in mods. But the most important havent, and as far as I can tell they haven't been addressed by the code patch either... So yes, basically I would like to see a MoO 2,5... But I could even live with MoO3 if only they would fix that which was good in MoO2 but is bad in MoO3 (Ship design, combat to a degree, I agree turn based fleet combat aint gonna work perfectly but the current system is even worse., Leaders, rightclicks, ship refits).... But apparently they dont... No wonder today you can earn $ 2.01 if you take a copy of MoO3 off Amazon.com hehehe Lata Krait

A fair enough list. Now to comments:

quote: - More convenient ship design (a'la MoO2)

What's inconvient about the ship design now, other than it's different than MOO2?

quote: - More influence and feedback in combat (including better graphics)

What more can you influence other than telling the task forces where to move, whom to attack, where to patrol, when to retreat?

Oh, you must mean "more control" based on the turn based combat of MOO2. It's been awhile but even in MOO2 you still simply clisked to attack, clicked to move, etc. Other than having to manage everything in real-time now, there doesn't seem to be much difference in combat?? Unelss I am missing something.

Regarding the graphics... They could be better, but have you ever zoomed in really close to the ships? They aren't *that* bad. They are pretty small, which is a lot more realistic compared to the biggest ships in MOO2 which were the same size as the planets if I remember correctly.

quote: - Ship refit

One question: why? Other than the fact this was in MOO2, where your crews could gain experience so this was needed, why does it need to be in MOO3? It wasn't in MOO1, which is *much* closer to MOO3 than MOO2 was, IMHO.

quote: - Thorough rightclick info on items and stats (a'la MoO2)

This is about 95% done for MOO3 in the patch. I think I have only found one or two things that didn't have in-game information about them with the patch. In some cases you can learn about something from right-clicking it than you can in the encyclopedia.

quote: - Less fighting against planetary governors AI

Again, define "fighting". If you mean fighting over what get's built, the ability to lock the MBQ does *wonders* to lessen the micromanage headache that this game was when it was initially released. The ability to see what's being built and go straight to the MBQ/PBQ from the "Planets" list also cuts down on the headaches as well.

quote: - Leaders that actually matter and stay for a long time

As opposed to the glorious leaders, who were *all* worth their weight in gold in MOO2? Seriously, the leaders in MOO3 are valuable depending on your situation. Play any low diplomatic race and get a leader that add's +15% to your diplomacy skill and see how much they matter. They usually stay until they die of old age, you dismiss them, or a spy kills them. I am about 65 turns into a recent, post-patch game and I have one leader who's been with me at least 40 turns.

quote: - less erratic diplomacy

I agree with you here, Diplomacy could use work in general, but seems more stable since the patch. At least you can understand now why the AI does some things it does. Have a race that's at war with another group and you try to be "chummy" with both? Not going to happen. One or the other race will start becomming upset that you're friends with their enemies. Of course the game doesn't tell you this now, but it's something they are supposedly working on (I have my doubt but would be happy if they improved this as well.)

quote: - Stats on stuff you research (as in hard numbers)

It's in the patch. You don't see "modestly reduced HFOG" any more instead you see "reduces HFOG 2%". You see the numbers as in range damage, etc on weapons. How much space the engines will use, and even the tech levels when you right click in a diplomacy screen when asking for or receiving an "exchange items" message.

quote: So yes, basically I would like to see a MoO 2,5... But I could even live with MoO3 if only they would fix that which was good in MoO2 but is bad in MoO3 (Ship design, combat to a degree, I agree turn based fleet combat aint gonna work perfectly but the current system is even worse., Leaders, rightclicks, ship refits).... But apparently they dont..

At least you're honest that what you wanted was MOO 2.5 instead of something new with the same theme. The problem is, of course, that all the stuff you want more like MOO2, a lot of others like and would *hate* if it went more like MOO2. MOO3 is a lot like Civ3, in that the people who loved the second version, didn't seem to like the third, but the people who liked the original seemed to like the third one better.

Go figure.

quote: No wonder today you can earn $ 2.01 if you take a copy of MoO3 off Amazon.com hehehe

I'd bet that this is more from Amazon.com not knowing how to manage their inventory, rather than the game sucking. If the game was selling that bad everywhere you'd see the price at $20 every where you go instead of simply at Amazon. From rumors I have heard, Amazon was very slow in shipping the copies people had bought from them so they had a lot of cancelled orders. Since the game wasn't in the best shape on release it still wasn't selling as well as Amazon wanted. If you've ever bought a car from a dealer and gotten a deal because the dealer was trying to make room for the next year's model's you'd see what Amazon is doing.

	12-06-2003 03:47									#53
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Let me see: 5 has somehow become more extreme. The planetary governor now has the habit of building a lot of System Colonyships. Was probably implemented to let the AI-Players colonize more than just one Planet per System, but for the human player it means that you´ve got to be constant on watch or you end up having lots of System Colonyships in one System, but no System Defenceships.

Unless you lock the MBQ building system defense ships, even at one percent of spending. Nothing else BUT system defense ships (or whatever unit/ship you added before locking it) will be built once you do that. Have a colony you don't want building much? Have them either very slowly build defense ships, or one unit of troops (nfantry, marine, etc) Once you set spending other than what get's added to the PBQ, the Viceroy has never added more spending to what I placed in the MBQ to begin with once I lock it.

	12-06-2003 03:49									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Kahn Sorry Charlie, I hate MS just as much as the next guy, but it is painfully obvious when a company (QS) can manage to break the Bink API that it is not a DirectX problem!

Is Bink the company that made the AVI software that allows the cinematics to play? If so, the version that shipped with the game, 1.5 has known errors with Windows 98. It was only in the past few months that the company that makes the software fixed this in version 1.5d, or something like that.

If this is not the right thing then sorry.

	12-06-2003 06:43									#55
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ozymandous Is Bink the company that made the AVI software that allows the cinematics to play? If so, the version that shipped with the game, 1.5 has known errors with Windows 98. It was only in the past few months that the company that makes the software fixed this in version 1.5d, or something like that. If this is not the right thing then sorry.

I'm running a Win 2k platform, so I have never experienced any errors (except for MoO3's flawed implimentation). I've also have toyed around with the API somewhat and have found it to be remarkably well written and extreamly stable! The only difficulties I've experienced even remotely connected with BINK is the playback (but the following I must point out is true no matter which codex you use for playback) will studder if you CD-ROM drive is set to read-ahead disk caching. Set the drive to no disk caching as you would for any multimedia app and you will not experience any problems.

	12-06-2003 12:53									#56
	Re: Just experience... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Kahn Unfortunately the gaming marketplace has bred some pretty shoddy releases from some of the more unscrupulous publishing houses out there. Bioware I have not had any experience with, but Interplay has been known for some time to release buggy merchandise, long enough for many gamers to shy away from them (though IMHO I do not feel they are the worst by a long shot.) You don’t have to use DirectX to have a bad piece of software, just look at Simon & Schuster Interactive, haven’t seen even one release that would run without crashing out-of-the-box! No DX at all, just plain bad programming. Many games you have may be crashing because of bad implementation of DirectX, not DX itself. For the ones that crash on startup, if you change your display resolution to match the resolution of the game screen, you should find that most will run OK. This is a result of the programmer not checking the screen metrics (GetSystemMetrics) and changing the resolution before attempting to draw the DX screen. This is a commonly encountered problem and is not the fault of DX, just lazy programming. I would suggest that if you want to see some examples of good programming in DX, look at releases from Blizzard, CaveDog (at least TA was good), and most of EA’s releases (though they have had a few dogs). In terms of programming complexity Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Rainbow Six & Civilization III all run rings around the simplistic MoO3. Heck, even this web page is more complex that any of the GUI’s in MoO3, and it don’t crash. Actually, you can! Though these are third party tools, I have used them with no ill effects (though I always followed up by reinstalling the version of DX I wanted on my machine). Here is an example of one of the better ones. Here are some others...

Thank to the tool to remove DX as I think some games that install DX donot remove the old files that arenot needed anymore, plus I have than old turn base space strat games that want only DX 3.0 to run and nothing later will do.

	12-06-2003 17:55									#57
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by BobD I've also noticed that the CLEAR QUEUED button on the Ship Design screen doesn't work!

This has worked for me - the only thing you need to realize is that only queued ships will be removed from the que; ships already being built WILL NOT be removed. Also, if you don't "Obsolete" a ship the build AI will just plop it back into the queue after you remove it.

My initial reaction to the patch:

I'm actually playing MOO3 again, and now I'm enjoying it. Of course I'm only 100 turns into my first post-patch game.........

	12-06-2003 19:58									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Stuie This has worked for me - the only thing you need to realize is that only queued ships will be removed from the que; ships already being built WILL NOT be removed. Also, if you don't "Obsolete" a ship the build AI will just plop it back into the queue after you remove it.

I do understand that it will only clear ships that have not yet started production. However, your point about "Obsolete" may help. The ships I try to clear are always obsolete, but I don't remember if I used the CLEAR button before I made them obsolete or after. Which should it be?

	12-06-2003 21:11									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Clear then use the obsolete button. Sorry, had that backwards before (been a few days since I had used this, but checked last night).

EDIT: Post the correct order instead of the backward one.

Last edited by Ozymandous on 13-06-2003 at 19:43

	13-06-2003 00:40									#60
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quote: What's inconvient about the ship design now, other than it's different than MOO2?

I forgot the details since I havent played for so long, but if I remember correctly you couldn't change weapon properties without deleting the stack and adding a new one. That is my main gripe. I think there were other annoying things, having to do with engines, the mandatory equipment, the names, and the autobuilder, but it has been too long to remember details. All I know is that a 1:1 conversion for MoO2s Ship design would have been a whole lot better....

quote: What more can you influence other than telling the task forces where to move, whom to attack, where to patrol, when to retreat? Oh, you must mean "more control" based on the turn based combat of MOO2. It's been awhile but even in MOO2 you still simply clisked to attack, clicked to move, etc. Other than having to manage everything in real-time now, there doesn't seem to be much difference in combat?? Unelss I am missing something.

In MoO2 you could control and check individual ships. Withdraw them if they were damaged, divide weapons fire to different targets (actually fire every weapon stack individually if you so wanted), move them into position to hit the damaged shields, etc etc... SO much more tactical than what I have seen from MoO3. And so much more control... At least a pause-button would be needed (I am not sure if that is in or not, but I seem to remember that there was no pause?)

quote: Regarding the graphics... They could be better, but have you ever zoomed in really close to the ships? They aren't *that* bad. They are pretty small, which is a lot more realistic compared to the biggest ships in MOO2 which were the same size as the planets if I remember correctly.

At least MoO2 offered different hulls for every weight class (xcept DoomStars) for every race. I would far prefer that in 2D over what MoO3 gives in 3D and I don't think it can be that hard to do in 3D. Homeworld for example is old, runs pretty smooth with lots of space and tons of ships around, and those ships are huge. MoO3 tactical combat in the homeworld engine, I would expect Dreadnoughts to be the size of Homeworld Fighters, and a far far far smaller expanse of space... Should run with little problems (I think, of course I am no programmer so I dunno for sure).

quote: One question: why? Other than the fact this was in MOO2, where your crews could gain experience so this was needed, why does it need to be in MOO3? It wasn't in MOO1, which is *much* closer to MOO3 than MOO2 was, IMHO.

Because refitting an old ship is much cheaper than building a new one? Imagine the US Navy trashing their fleets and building new ships everytime there is a technological advance... Ships are refitted until the new stuff doesn't fit anymore or they age so much that their maintenance becomes too expensive so they are trashed...

quote: This is about 95% done for MOO3 in the patch. I think I have only found one or two things that didn't have in-game information about them with the patch. In some cases you can learn about something from right-clicking it than you can in the encyclopedia.

Thats good news, but I dunno if I will bother to experience it myself anytime soon...

quote: As opposed to the glorious leaders, who were *all* worth their weight in gold in MOO2? Seriously, the leaders in MOO3 are valuable depending on your situation. Play any low diplomatic race and get a leader that add's +15% to your diplomacy skill and see how much they matter. They usually stay until they die of old age, you dismiss them, or a spy kills them. I am about 65 turns into a recent, post-patch game and I have one leader who's been with me at least 40 turns.

Well I was mostly referring to the leaders being little more than fodder for enemy assassins... If that has been remedied, then its OK..

quote: At least you're honest that what you wanted was MOO 2.5 instead of something new with the same theme. The problem is, of course, that all the stuff you want more like MOO2, a lot of others like and would *hate* if it went more like MOO2. MOO3 is a lot like Civ3, in that the people who loved the second version, didn't seem to like the third, but the people who liked the original seemed to like the third one better.

I think Civ3 (which I happen to like almost as much as Civ1 and Civ2) is still very close to Civ2 while MoO3 bears almost no resemblance to MoO2. And while this is only my personal opinion and experience, I still think that there are far far more people who would rather see MoO3 closer to MoO2 than as far from it as it is....

quote: I'd bet that this is more from Amazon.com not knowing how to manage their inventory, rather than the game sucking. If the game was selling that bad everywhere you'd see the price at $20 every where you go instead of simply at Amazon. From rumors I have heard, Amazon was very slow in shipping the copies people had bought from them so they had a lot of cancelled orders. Since the game wasn't in the best shape on release it still wasn't selling as well as Amazon wanted. If you've ever bought a car from a dealer and gotten a deal because the dealer was trying to make room for the next year's model's you'd see what Amazon is doing.

I got mine from Amazon too. They delivered it the day it was released, before I ever got the chance to cancel my order (whish they had taken longer lol). I am pretty sure that Amazon is indeed getting rid of them to make room for other stuff, but that is BECAUSE it sucks (Yes I know it doesnt, so lets say because they like many others think it sucks, and they prolly are aware of the customer reviews too hehehe)