07-06-2003 23:04									#1
	Should the US Have a Consitutional Amendment that Prohibits the Government Lying? Inflate your Upload Space

I believe that the government should be prohibited from lying to it's electorate and dependents. By lying to us, we are unable to make properly informed decisions.

Think of how different how different history would be if the government couldn't lie to us. No Vietnam War. No Watergate. No Iran-Contra. No Drug War BS.

	07-06-2003 23:09									#2
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What, so the US government obeys it's own constitution now?

	07-06-2003 23:09									#3
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Oh man, Che! That was a good one!

	07-06-2003 23:10									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu What, so the US government obeys it's constitution now?

Okay, you got me.

	07-06-2003 23:11									#5
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Of course not.

The way to punish the lying government is by voting them out. Such an ammendment would be impossible to write, and impossible to police. Anyone coudl for example claim that any time the Government writes a report (any report whatsoever, on anything), that it was lying because- X.

Fraud and perjury and a host of tother things are already illegal. Punish that.

	07-06-2003 23:13									#6
	Re: Should the US Have a Consitutional Amendment that Prohibits the Government Lying? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I believe that the government should be prohibited from lying to it's electorate and dependents. By lying to us, we are unable to make properly informed decisions. Think of how different how different history would be if the government couldn't lie to us. No Vietnam War. No Watergate. No Iran-Contra. No Drug War BS.

That would depend on the operative definition of "lie."

	07-06-2003 23:26									#7
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MtG, that's after we decide on the definition of 'is'. We're still working on that one .

	07-06-2003 23:29									#8
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I wasn't sure if Clinton-speak or Nixon-speak was the most appropriate response.

	07-06-2003 23:36									#9
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Clinton-speak is more recent and the younger folk (like me ) can readily identify it .

	07-06-2003 23:41									#10
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A constitutional amendment against government lying is a very very bad idea for the following 3 reasons:

1) it would paralyze government because someone would want an investigation every 5 mn.
2) You can't enforce it.
3) Some lying in the case of national security is neccessary and good for the country.

	07-06-2003 23:51									#11
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Better than lying might be a prohibition on deceptive and misleading information. Sort of like the prohibitions on deceptive and misleading advertising. Perhaps government speech should be treated more like commercial speech in that respect.

	07-06-2003 23:57									#12
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But don't we want misleading information at times, such as in cases of national security. If a journalist asks if we have such and such weapon and the guy says no or something?

	07-06-2003 23:58									#13
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If there is a constitutional amendment that prevents the government from lying, make sure it extends to politics aswell, especially with the democrats and leftist political parties.

	08-06-2003 00:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But don't we want misleading information at times, such as in cases of national security. If a journalist asks if we have such and such weapon and the guy says no or something?

Why not answer: "for reasons of national security, i will not answer that question"? or "I can not give an answer to that question"?

Lying is not neccesary. But as I said above, such an ammendment is silly.

	08-06-2003 00:01									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But don't we want misleading information at times, such as in cases of national security. If a journalist asks if we have such and such weapon and the guy says no or something?

In the case of national security, the government can simply say they niether confirm nor deny. Most of the time, however, when the government is lying, it's not to protect us, it's to keep from being caught doing something illegal or to get us to agree to something which would would otherwise not agree.

	08-06-2003 00:04									#16
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quote: In the case of national security, the government can simply say they niether confirm nor deny.

Which basically says to the reporter.... Yeah, we got it .

	08-06-2003 00:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But don't we want misleading information at times, such as in cases of national security. If a journalist asks if we have such and such weapon and the guy says no or something?

A case could be made here. You could use the press to disseminate false information to fool enemies. The down side is, after a couple of times, no one trusts the press or the govenment anymore. Just look at the Soviet Pravda (eventually used as toilet paper), the New York Post (best used as toilet paper - but not very absorbant), or Fox news (watched only by people who don't want to be bothered by the truth).

I would prefer the "no comment response". Even on obvious stuff (does that dingy have nukes? No comment). This preserves the integrity of information. You figure if the government is too tight with information, hopefully the people will vote the bums out.

	08-06-2003 00:07									#18
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quote: The down side is, after a couple of times, no one trusts the press or the govenment anymore.

Like anyone trusts the government now?

	08-06-2003 00:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: In the case of national security, the government can simply say they niether confirm nor deny. Which basically says to the reporter.... Yeah, we got it .

I type too slow I guess to be timely

But I disagree - you can read a "no comment" in various ways.

"Did you capture Bin Ladin?"
"No comment"

Could mean (a) no we didn't, and we don't want to admit how bad we suck, or (b) we got him and we don't want anyone to know just yet. You just think in circles.

	08-06-2003 00:09									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The down side is, after a couple of times, no one trusts the press or the govenment anymore. Like anyone trusts the government now?

OK, the government could start building trust again.

	08-06-2003 00:11									#21
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Why don't you just say it templar? You hate the US and hate everything it stands for. I just about had it with your antagonizing behavior..

	08-06-2003 00:19									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The down side is, after a couple of times, no one trusts the press or the govenment anymore. Like anyone trusts the government now?

Oh come off it. You know there are lots of people, some who argued here, that the government wouldn't lie about something this important.

I find that gullibility goes up when your party is in power, and your cynicism goes up with the other party is in power. Since my party is never in power, I'm always cynical.

	08-06-2003 00:19									#23
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Stop with the personal crap... Or I'll stop it in a way you won't like.

	08-06-2003 00:21									#24
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quote: Oh come off it. You know there are lots of people, some who argued here, that the government wouldn't lie about something this important.

Slowwhand, Ned, and Fez don't count .

	08-06-2003 01:46									#25
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quote: Slowwhand, Ned, and Fez don't count

Yup, they really don't count

	08-06-2003 01:48									#26
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Fez never counts.
He's just a ...

	08-06-2003 01:57									#27
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quote: I find that gullibility goes up when your party is in power, and your cynicism goes up with the other party is in power. Since my party is never in power, I'm always cynical.

	08-06-2003 02:09									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I just about had it with your antagonizing behavior..

Good thing for you Ming got here before I did. He won't always get to your posts first.

When I tell you to chill and cut the bullshit, it doesn't mean for the next two or three posts afterwards, then back to the usual.

Seems to me you're in need of a little "attitude adjustment."

	08-06-2003 02:12									#29
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Seems to me we have laws that prohibit the folks in government from stealing and cheating, but they do it just the same!

	08-06-2003 02:15									#30
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Good thing for you Ming got here before I did. He won't always get to your posts first. When I tell you to chill and cut the bullshit, it doesn't mean for the next two or three posts afterwards, then back to the usual. Seems to me you're in need of a little "attitude adjustment."