08-06-2003 05:35									#1
	FAM Report: 1100 BC Get a bigger avatar today!

We currently have contact with 12 of the 23 other civs out there.

Techs we know: Bronze Working, Masonry, Alphabet, Pottery, The Wheel, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Horseback Riding, Iron Working, Mysticism, Writing, Mathematics, Polytheism

Other techs that we know someone's discovered: Map Making, Philosophy, Code of Laws

Our treasury: 50 gold

Civs with workers available this turn: None

Civs that need Mathematics: Babylon
Civs that need Map Making: Ottomans, Iroquois, Babylon, Japan, Spain, England
Civs that need Philosophy: Iroquois, Celts, Babylon, Japan, Spain, England
Civs that Need Code of Laws: Ottomans, Iroquois, Celts, Germany, Babylon, Japan, Spain, England

Our war against the Ottomans is proceeding well, though some AIs continue to leap ahead while we bash heads: Korea has become another superpower in the diplomacy arena; it has all the known techs and gold to spare. This happened at the same time that Code of Laws appeared on the scene, so they were likely the first to discover that tech, and were able to sell it for major profit.

The Ottomans' ego has finally deflated enough to admit defeat, and they are now willing to negotiate the terms of their surrender. CiverDan has analyzed our peace treaty options; here are the best deals he saw:
Philosophy+Sinop+Antalya OR Konya
Sinop+Konya+Antalyn+Adana OR Bursa
Sinop+Aydin+Antalya OR Konya

As FAM, I'd really like to get our hands on Philosophy (we could then trade it to the Celts for Map Making, putting us only one tech behind again), but if we sign peace this turn, that means forfeitting Aydin. (If we do negotiate peace, I'd go for Phil+Sinop+Konya; Antalya is west of Ankara and would probably just culture flip back to the Ottos. Also, Konya is not on our map, so we'd get some map info out of it at the very least.) However, in addition to philosophy+a few cities or 4 cities, we have the option of continuing the war and trying to take Aydin by force. I'd advocate that approach, but that's partly because I don't have to worry about how to carry all that it (and also partly because I think we'd get one great peace deal if we did take Aydin); it would also run the risk of giving the Celts a few more turns to get Philosophy from another source. Please discuss this; it's an important choice. But don't you want to give our swords a little action?

Also, kudos to whoever thought to rename Edrine. It's really funny to read "Ankara is the biggest threat to OPD's Lunch".

Details on individual civs:

Ottomans
Attitude: Furious (He he )
Deals: None
Connected Resources (iron connectivity can no longer be seen, now that we have a source): Horses (1), Furs (1)
Gold: 2
Techs (That we don't know): Philosophy
Needed Techs (that we know): None

Iroquois
Attitude: Annoyed
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Furs (3)
Gold: 12
Techs: None
Needed Techs: None

Zulus
Attitude: Polite
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Horses (1), Silks (1)
Gold: 136
Techs: Map Making, Philosophy, Code of Laws
Needed Techs: None

Persia
Attitude: Annoyed
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Dyes (1)
Gold: 50
Techs: Map Making, Philosophy, Code of Laws
Needed Techs: None

Celts
Attitude: Polite
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Dyes (2)
Gold: 77
Techs: Map Making
Needed Techs: None

Germany
Attitude: Annoyed
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Horses (1)
Gold: 16
Techs: Map Making, Philosophy
Needed Techs: None

Babylon
Attitude: Annoyed
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Dyes (2)
Gold: 0
Techs: None
Needed Techs: Mathematics

Egypt
Attitude: Polite
Deals: They give nothing, we give 14 gpt (10)
Connected Resources: Horses (1)
Gold: 24
Techs: Map Making, Philosophy, Code of Laws
Needed Techs: None

Japan
Attitude: Annoyed
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Horses (1)
Gold: 4
Techs: None
Needed Techs: None

Spain
Attitude: Cautious
Deals: None
Connected Resources: Incense (1)
Gold: 13
Techs: None
Needed Techs: None

Korea
Attitude: Cautious
Deals: None
Connected Resources: None
Gold: 125
Techs: Map Making, Philosophy, Code of Laws
Needed Techs: None

England
Attitude: Cautious
Deals: None
Connected Resources: None
Gold: 4
Techs: None
Needed Techs: None

	08-06-2003 05:43									#2
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If we go for Philosophy now, we can't take Aydin or
Bursa, the only two cities of real use to us. Sinop without Bursa is not that great for culture-flip and defendability reasons. It would be pressured by Ankara ans Bursa (which has a temple and border expansion) Just making a settler there with no obvious place nearby to go isn't that much better.

We could just cripple the ottomans by taking 4 cities, but then we would get no tech to trade. Personally I would rather get the tech. I say try to Take Aydin, then try to get Bursa+Philosophy from them.

	08-06-2003 09:08									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Well why dont we take Adin by force and then make peace for even more. But it also depends if we would lose forces because of that attack. The Ottomans could have very well stack their defences there.

	08-06-2003 09:57									#4
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* MrWhereItsAt puts on Brian Blessed voice

What kind of Viking would dare to put forth the utterance that we would rather settle for peace? NO! We have SWORDS, these new easier-to-deal-with axes, and all of them are still shiny new! We must dull them and prove their worth in combat. Then and only then, when our soldiers are steeped in the BLOOD of our enemies will we allow them a reprieve.


BWAAAAAAGH!

	08-06-2003 17:00									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Well why dont we take Adin by force and then make peace for even more. But it also depends if we would lose forces because of that attack. The Ottomans could have very well stack their defences there.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Drag things out for a little longer untill we take or probably destroy aydin. Then sue for Bursa, Sinop, Andayna and Knoya. They won't be able to throw any serious units at us and as long as we play things right we should be able to get a better deal in a few turns than now.
Although we have to be careful to build another cities on adydin quickly if it razes with all those other stlrs around.

	08-06-2003 19:20									#6
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Let us take Aydin, then get Philosophy + whatever else we can get for peace.

Then, perhaps we could sell/trade Philosophy to those civs still lacking it: Iroquois, Celts, Babylon, Japan, Spain, and England.

	08-06-2003 19:45									#7
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yes indeed, lets take aydin and perhaps another city in central ottoman land and then make peace for much more. We have sufficient forces in the area. I would prefer 1/2 more archers to go with the 3 swords near Aydin though.
Aggie

	09-06-2003 01:45									#8
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Taking Aydin has support from all posters here so far, so unless anyone raises objections, we should do so. Dejon, do you think we have a good shot at taking Aydin?

	09-06-2003 03:48									#9
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MWIA,

You think you do a good Brian Blessed voice? You haven't heard mine! (Of course, now that I think of it, I haven't heard yours either.)

Anyway, yes, let's go get more cities and make them vassals! Ahahahahaha!

Historik Battleaxe

	09-06-2003 03:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Taking Aydin has support from all posters here so far, so unless anyone raises objections, we should do so. Dejon, do you think we have a good shot at taking Aydin?

If it has the same sort of defense we saw at Erdine and Uskudar (2 spears max), I don't see it being a problem. The attack force being assembled is 1 spear and 4 swords, with the possible addition of an archer or two.

We do not have sufficient forces to push further west or northwest at this time. That land will leave our forces very open to attack while travelling, and we don't have the required escort units for our offensive units.

I agree with just taking Aydin and then making peace. The Iroq are growing and dangerous - they are begging to see the end of a Viking sword. With all the settlers to our east, we know it will only be a matter of time before those civs go to war, hopefully with each other. Regardless, we have to start preparing to more seriously defend our other borders.

	09-06-2003 05:24									#11
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quote: Originally posted by dejon If it has the same sort of defense we saw at Erdine and Uskudar (2 spears max), I don't see it being a problem. The attack force being assembled is 1 spear and 4 swords, with the possible addition of an archer or two.

Did any units come out of edrine since war was declared? It probably had 1 spear before the war and it looks like it has since pop rushed from 3 to 1. If no units have come out of it then it's probably got 2 spears and an archer.

	09-06-2003 06:31									#12
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I believe there is an archer to the north of it, so that probably came from it. I know this could be over stretching, but if we could perhaps bring 2 archers from wl to the west we could perhaps push toward bursa, we don't need to attack and must plan it right during Aydin. Just having the force there will make peace deal better and if we get real lucky and get a chance, taking bursa would allow an even better deal.
Aggie

	09-06-2003 07:12									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

I am in agreement with taking Aydin, and then cutting the deal.

I am also in favor of putting up an eastern wall. The next planned city SE of Asgard, and 4 units (spearmen) on the mountains - and we can seal of our end of the continent. Us and the Iroq.

	09-06-2003 22:55									#14
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Sounds like a plan if forming. So, did we teach those ottomans enough, or shall we have to go after them in another 30+/- turns? Duh... we are the vikings.

	09-06-2003 22:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound I am in agreement with taking Aydin, and then cutting the deal. I am also in favor of putting up an eastern wall. The next planned city SE of Asgard, and 4 units (spearmen) on the mountains - and we can seal of our end of the continent. Us and the Iroq.

hi ,

, those mountains could indeed be a great line of defense , ....... we should re-arm , build our nation a bit and then teach them a lesson or two , ......

have a nice day

	10-06-2003 00:06									#16
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Yap GK, I'd think of this next peace treaty as a cease fire. Remember they also have furs, and a luxury would rock.
Aggie

	11-06-2003 09:47									#17
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Aggie I thought we discussed that we WERENT going to make peace yet. But maybe I understoond wrong.

	11-06-2003 10:38									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We won't be accepting Furs in a peace deal I don't think, NukeMaster.

We will be conquering them. We are Vikings - and what are Vikings without their own supplies of furs for shabby looking clothes that make us look like unwashed barbarians (well, some of us ARE )?

	11-06-2003 12:15									#19
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Hey! Watch it. Nothing wrong with Furs, there.

	11-06-2003 13:03									#20
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BigFurryMonsters are far too rare and valuable to skin. That is unless we start having bad luck with the map again.

	11-06-2003 13:13									#21
	Put an end to popups!

* BigFurryMonster hides in the far corner of the map.

	11-06-2003 19:41									#22
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Ok good. We cannot let some sissy thoughts come into our brain. LONG LIVE THE VIKINGS.

	11-06-2003 20:51									#23
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Sorry Nuclear Master, I meant that the peace we get after we get aydin. . Basically I was saying that 20 turns after the peace we should attack again to seize the furs and other assorted cities.
Aggie

	12-06-2003 01:20									#24
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster * BigFurryMonster hides in the far corner of the map.

Don't go to far away... The presidential cave might need a new rug....

	13-06-2003 04:01									#25
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I really don't have anything to say, I'm just posting so GodKing doesn't feel bad for having to post immediately after himself.