08-06-2003 20:58									#1
	Trade routes and can fundy govs fall? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Anyone knows how trade routes work? And how is a city's trade goods determined? At random, or via some number seed when the city is built?

Seems they change at random each time a game is loaded, and modifications made using CivCity seems to be lost forever. This leads to very unrealistic trade situations, where a lot of cities will supply items no cities demand at all. And likewise, demanding of items not in supply.

Do they change in a game in progress, for cities already built? -seems I have to check up on that one.

And one additional question : is it ever possible for a fundy government to fall?

	08-06-2003 21:10									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Check the Strategy forum, there was an extensive study of how trade demands and supplies were changed, some weeks/month ago!

	08-06-2003 21:11									#3
	Support Apolyton

Some data on trade routes are explained on the Cradle of Civilization site.

Since there is never, ever any civil disorder in fundamentalism, I think there is no way of getting it to fall.

	09-06-2003 00:35									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Can you take advantage of its slow research rate to make a Fundy fall? I think I remember from regular Civ2 games that AI Fundy governments were overthrown when the human player got far ahead on techs. Perhaps near the desired time, you can make a science WoW or two in Fundyland obsolete. Then get ahead in the research race toward some (military?) tech that the Fundies want (might have to tweak civ settings and the tech tree). Hardly a sure-fire solution, but you probably can increase the odds of a change.

	09-06-2003 07:38									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, that might induce the AI to change governments, but remember that the AI doesn't possess anything even remotely resembling human reason. I mean, they'll switch to republic in wartime when they only have two cities left; how stupid is that?
As for human players, they might switch governments...or they might do what I do and use their wealth to buy vast armies of spies and steal the damned techs. Because fundamentalism is the ideal government in every way except where science is concerned, the human player is likely to just get a decent scientific edge, switch to fundie, and crush the AI like a bug. If you want to ensure really weak fundamentalists, you have to seriously alter the cosmic principles. Drop their free support number to 1 or 2, lower the research rate effectiveness even further, whatever. It helps if you strengthen communism and monarchy too.
You might do better to just force the governments from the beginning. It may be less realistic in a historical scenario but it's better than surrendering to the whims of the AI.

	09-06-2003 08:15									#6
	Hmmmmmmmm. Put an end to popups!

Take a look at the setup for the Modern Age scenario. In it, the AI, playing the Ottoman Turks, always starts out in Fundamentalism (renamed to Islam), but then, in the first few turns, changes it every time to despotism!

So, if the conditions are right, an AI will change out of Fundy.

Matter of fact, I attempted to make the Turk AI stop doing that . . . and was unsuccessful.

	09-06-2003 16:28									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanx guys

On the trade routes, thats quite an extensive study in the strategy forum! -Doesn't this deserve to get in the league design tips section (even though its not technically a design tip, its valuable information for scenario designers).

Here's the link, for those of you who haven't seen it:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...54&pagenumber=1

On the fundy, I've decided to force the governments in my scenario, since only all the 'wrong' civs kept changing governments, seriously weakening their potential power. I'm using fundy to represent early protestantism in my Armada scenario (primarily for the English), and was thinking if there was a way to make the government fall, if and when London falls. London has a happiness wonder, which, when disabled would then send the rest of England into disorder. (that was the intended effect, but of course it doesn't work that way with fundy)

Now I've reduced the free supported units to 1, but increased their science slightly not to let them fall completely behind in techs, which they have a tendency to do against a human player playing the Spanish (which is in holy empire=democracy). I'm still considering to tailor-sew some other government form to fit the shoe and leave fundamentalism completely out.