10-06-2003 17:02									#31
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quote: I wonder if we could somehow manage to hole up and squeeze enough out of our island to win without making any further territorial acquisitions.

It's possible, but highly unlikely. Our production would be suitable for a run at a Spaceship (all it really takes is well timed prebuilds), but we could fall behind on tech compared anyone on Bob well situated (GoW or RP's lands are very nice), or Lego possibly, because we only have 1 relatively small river.

Also, if a team controls Bob, they almost certainly win by Domination (over 900 of the 1300 land tiles, and the coastal tiles would make it pretty close) so we can't go isolationist and allow someone to run over everyone else but us and Lego.

	10-06-2003 19:17									#32
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I knew you were gonna say that, Aeson.

So yeah, our best bet is to hole up & build while upgrading our horsies/WC's to Knights and waiting for an opening. Our 4-move, seaworthy galleys give us a tactical edge, at least against RP - the one civ on Bob lacking a nasty medieval UU.

-Arrian

	10-06-2003 19:37									#33
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Outposts can be destroyed by bombardment.

I was toying with the idea of closing off all our coastal tiles to naval invasion. Even with our nice Worker-pumps, it would take a major effort to do so completely. If Bob really wants to take us out (we could expect at most a 2-way coalition), it could be worth it. Then again, we're speeing through Medieval Age, meaning Frigates and Ironclads will be available "soon".

I think we should use Outposts to prevent naval disembarkment at key locations, but not everywhere. Forcing the Bobians to go all the way around to our eastern coast should be fun.


Dominae

	10-06-2003 21:02									#34
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I think we should make building roads on any coastal mountains and hills a priority, and then put units up there. Outposts, to the extent we want to use up workers in that fashion (dunno about that) could be used to further narrow potential landing areas.

-Arrian

	11-06-2003 06:54									#35
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So then, to ask the big question:

How will we win this thing?

And what diplomatic goals do we need to establish / accomplish along the way?

	11-06-2003 06:59									#36
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Our major goal after we defeat Vox should be either to:

1) Get a foothold on Bob

or

2) Ensure there is a balance of power on Bob

or both.


If we do not do either of these two things, we will surely lose the game. If one team pulls ahead on Bob, it's game over for everyone else. Forget that their wars will be costly, they'll have ample time to build up afterwards and just dwarf us economically.

Like in the Total War AU scenario, clearing our home continent is less than half the story....


Dominae

	11-06-2003 08:33									#37
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Man, don;t bring that up!!! (still going)

I just came back from a short conference, and (away from 'poly for a bit) I was able to pull back from the trees and look at the forest.

Some may have seen some thoughts I've sprinkled in the Strat forum recently, actually going all the way back to Vel's 'metagame' and first voiced in "Care and Feeding...".

In my SP games, especially the recent AU game on a huge map, I realized that direct action can just be impossible, and that Machiavellian manipulation of the distant AI civs was my only hope.

Unfortunately, MilAlls and MPs aren;t quite the same here ( ), but I believe this is how we need to start thinking... direct action alone will clearly not cut it.

Someone mentioned that we have shown our skills as economists and tacticians... we will need to *not* 'show' our skills as political manipulators.

And, that said:

	11-06-2003 09:53									#38
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I think that Dominaea's option 2..Insure bob power balance should be oune of our diplomatic objectivs.

On the outher hand Theseus pot it aptly...

quote: Originally posted by Theseus . we will need to *not* 'show' our skills as political manipulators. And, that said:

That will be tricky, but you are right.... while our only chance for long term expansion involves diplomacy we must not too good at political manipulation. Right now, I do not think that it is an issue as I get the impression that many of teh othewr teams do not think we are too saavy.

Mss