10-06-2003 14:19									#1
	Do they think we were born yesterday? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This post is one half "Good for you! " and one half "LOL, yeah right "

Quoted from ACS news (source=CFC)

quote: Jesse Smith, going by the nickname `Tavis` in Civilization Fanatics Center`s forums, yesterday commented on the Civilization III: Conquests beta program: "Due to the depth of CivIII, it is a necessary evil that sometimes things will slip through the cracks. It is our goal with C3C to make sure that NOTHING slips through the cracks and that the title does not require a patch. I will accept nothing less than a title that has found greatness.

While this is certainly an admirable goal (and one wonders why they even feel the need to say it - shouldn't it be implied that they intend to make a game that isn't riddled with bugs?) I can't help wondering if they really expect us to believe that C3C will be free of bugs.

I applaud Mr.Smith for having the balls to stand up and declare this to the community, and hope it doesn't all blow up in his face come the Autumn, but the possibility of a Civ game (indeed, ANY game these days) not requiring some kind of patch seems highly implausible.

Of course, having a GOAL to make the code perfect and bug-free is a good thing. It's a great thing. But does anyone genuinely believe that they will achieve it? I, for one, do not.

The presence of some bugs and a couple of patches won't automatically make C3C a bad game. I'm not happy with PTW multiplayer, but I acknowledge that the fully patched singleplayer version of Civ3+PTW is an excellent game (although it took about a year - and an expansion - for it to get there).

Despite my reservations about their ability to follow through on such promises (a "robust editor", anyone? ) it's nice to see that Firaxis are still trying. Some other developers seem to have given up on producing quality bug-free games already.

	10-06-2003 14:50									#2
	Put an end to popups!

normal team leader pep talk.

Sounds like he's talking more to the team and the testers than to the rest of us.

There's nothing wrong with setting high standards. If he starts saying "oh, 1 or 2 bugs is ok" we'll end up having 50

	10-06-2003 15:29									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Knowing about a bug and fixing it are two very different things anyway
-

Is there a list of all the Beta testers?

How about a roll-call

So who signed up?

I didn't

	10-06-2003 15:35									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sid is sending his limo to my apartment.

	10-06-2003 21:03									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

nah they really think we are stupid or atleast they think so about you not me :P

	11-06-2003 02:55									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by alva Knowing about a bug and fixing it are two very different things anyway - Is there a list of all the Beta testers? How about a roll-call So who signed up? I didn't

I axed to be a beta tester, but I dunno if I made the cut

	11-06-2003 02:56									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Jesse Smith's got balls

i like his attitude

cheers

	11-06-2003 02:58									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Too late. The Hittites have slipped through.

	11-06-2003 19:42									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The Hittites will be a "feature," not a bug. Some other bugs will also be called "features," which are often limitations that can't be fixed. Still, you have to admire the guts of a developer vowing to be bug-free in the modern age, even with an expansion. Proof, however, will be in the pudding. Something to watch for, at any rate.

	11-06-2003 19:52									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I remember the days when even a balanced and moderate thread like this one would start a flame war in this forum. I don't know whether to be proud or disappointed that this no longer appears to be the case.

@ the Hittite jokes.

/edit: Wow, this was my 3000th post here. The 'Emperor' under my name looks weird.

	11-06-2003 22:01									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by alva Knowing about a bug and fixing it are two very different things anyway - Is there a list of all the Beta testers? How about a roll-call So who signed up? I didn't

hi ,

if you are one , you cant even say it , ....

anyway , there shall be at least one patch , but would they please burn it then on the next batch of disks , .....

cause there are still disks being sold of civ III ( 1.04f ) , ...... and the same with PTW , ....

have a nice day

	11-06-2003 23:52									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

So, panag is a beta tester. Otherwise how would he know that testers are not allowed to say they are one?

John

	12-06-2003 00:15									#13
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by John-SJ So, panag is a beta tester. Otherwise how would he know that testers are not allowed to say they are one? John

hi ,

nope i am not , but a kid from the hospital is

and no i am not going to ask him when he gets the cd about whats in it , .....

have a nice day

	12-06-2003 00:56									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I applaud the guy for doing whut is very difficult for any game company to do, say that the game will have no bugs. Of course, a multi-millions of lines of code will have bugs, but just like said - if one bug is okay, then 50 will be shipped

quote: and one wonders why they even feel the need to say it

They know that the Civ games community was disappointed with the amount of patches it needs. They're trying to say that "This game will not need a patch, it will be playable right out of the box." Because, Civ needs three things: gameplay, no bugs, and mods. It's got the gameplay, and hopefully the rumours pay out and the C3C editor is good. Then, C3C will serve as a giant patch that, in this valiant vision, fixes all multiplayer flaws, adds features to multiplayer, and tweaks out the singleplayer problems. Hopefully he's right and there won't be any bugs.

	12-06-2003 04:25									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

There will always be bugs.

The real question is will they be minor enough to make game highly playable without patches.

	12-06-2003 05:50									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Of course they can completely get rid of bugs! We'll just end up with plenty of new "features" that are "intentionally" left there to make the game more of a "challenge". No bugs, but lots of little "features".

	12-06-2003 21:13									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There's a list of beta testers over at CFC if anyone's interested... I don't know how to link to posts but it's in the General Discussion forum...
I didn't get in...

	12-06-2003 22:57									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Expecting perfection is a good thing. Actually achieving perfection...that's next to impossible.
I'm somewhat surprised there is a list of testers (and no I haven't checked it out yet). I know someone who is a beta tester for the new Star Wars Online game, but if he told me anything about it he'd have to kill me. Avoiding the temptation of giving tidbits of beta test info to others is probably why most games don't list their beta testers. If you don't know who to ask, they can't tell you. I guess this one is different.