10-06-2003 17:12									#1
	Are there unbalanced nations? Full PM-box? Change here!

Yeah,
let's twist the "which nations do you play" scenario.

So what's your opinion: Are there any nations that are stonger (better/easier) or weaker (harder) to play than the others?

	10-06-2003 17:28									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

No, no, no, no, NO!

I am myself getting pretty annoyed at people (don't mean you here) who get a game and start complaining against imbalances immediately. Age of Mythology disappointed me that way... it was very well balanced at the beggining, only a small tweak was needed, but the Newbie Community screamed so loud, that major changes were made, and now THOSE made the game inbalanced.

IMO, RoN is balanced very well. To the point where yes, I absolutely love Aztecs, but I don't think there's something inbalanced. The strongest thing in the game, I think, is a Bantu player who builds the Colossus.

	10-06-2003 18:34									#3
	Tired of ads?

Yes, talking about unbalance should be suspended until the game is out at least three months.

	10-06-2003 20:32									#4
	Tired of ads?

Maybe it is still too early to rightly judge imbalances, but I just don't see any yet.

	11-06-2003 02:26									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i have played every race, most of them effectively.

theres a big difference between "i feel this is unbalanced" and "i don't like these attributes".

	11-06-2003 18:59									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I even thought that maybe the Chinese instant build of citizens was going to be unbalanced. But when I play against Chinese using players, I don't see a problem.

They typically get a nice quick boost in score right at the outset of the game, but I tend to keep pace with them throughout.

	11-06-2003 20:40									#7
	Got spare money?

Is it me or do the Greek just feel a bit weak compared to the others? I played a CtW campaign with them and I don't feel overly impressed

	11-06-2003 21:52									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Regarding the greeks, I thought so too until I got them in a couple multiplayer games, and realized how far ahead I was in technology. Also, be sure to get your attack on before Enlightenment; the earlier the better. Those Greek heavy cav kick butt, and their speed makes them well suited for raids.

	11-06-2003 21:53									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

their our only nations that suit you, or don't

	11-06-2003 22:37									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Play the greeks before you doubt their effectiveness. Their cavalry is pretty powerful, and the cheaper universitiy is really nice.

Oh and that -10% for all library research helps a bunch too :P

	12-06-2003 00:46									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The Greeks...
Played them (SP, my 1st tough game) vs. 6 on a 7-8 size old world map yesterday. I was disappointed with the initial university and NO money to get scholars with (all my previous games had been as Rome).

Thank you Bridger, for pointing out their other scientific advantages. May have had something to do with the ease of the win: 24 Wonder pts / 75% territory in 2 hours -- seemed like 14.

(Edit: tech on Very Slow & Expensive)

Last edited by Jaybe on 12-06-2003 at 00:53

	12-06-2003 00:53									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Another vote for the Greeks and the tech lead they can achieve and exploit. They do this best on Toughest.

	12-06-2003 05:24									#13
	The Spanish? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm sure I'm just playing them wrong but is having the map revealed that huge an advantage? Are they still viable in a game, sea map or land, starting in the Industrial Age?

	12-06-2003 06:02									#14
	Re: The Spanish? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by LordGek I'm sure I'm just playing them wrong but is having the map revealed that huge an advantage? Are they still viable in a game, sea map or land, starting in the Industrial Age?

all it does is reveal terrain. ruins and special resources are not visible (IIRC), and the "fog of war" covers everything. it's useful, but it's a major trade off. give me inca any day

	12-06-2003 06:16									#15
	Put an end to popups!

Spain
-They have a very strong start (those bonusruins help alot combined with 1 or 2 scienceupgrades). In Teamgames u can end up with ~2k ruinres. That doesn't sound much, but keep in mind that u get most of it at the start of the game,where u low on res.
-You can get many rare resources fast.
-You know where the terrain is good for a attack.
-You know the position of his rare res and so raiding them is very easy.
-In Teamgames u can ping your teammates points of interest(rare res, big forests, lakes, etc).
-The uu is ok, not too strong, but strong enough for a decent rush or attack.

	12-06-2003 15:34									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I haven't played as the same nation twice, I keep playing as new ones... and at present time, I haven't found any unbalancing yet...

	13-06-2003 17:50									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have played the chinese for a week now (CTW mode easy). WOW ! If you add their ability (instant production of peasants, merchants and caravans+ quicker research) to the "Terra Cota Army" you can rush the ennemy terrytory very early with a radical technologic gap. This way I could crush all opponents from 18 minutes to a little more than one hour.

	14-06-2003 18:20									#18
	Suffering from ads?

Mayans and Russians are the weakest, at least for my style of play.
Funny thing is that Russians seem to be the most popular, as I predicted in early Beta2 stages. The defensive bonus is great for new players, but I hate civs that rely on defense too much as Mayans and Russians do.

Japanese , Germans and Bantu seem to be my favorites, although I wouldn't say they're overpowered.

Koreans were overpowerd in Beta2, but seem to be average now.

	15-06-2003 04:50									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Spanish should be good in maps with choke points like Great Lakes, etc. Lets you plan your expansion a little better. First time I used them I thought to myself "ok let's go hunting for ruins" and then realized that they're fogged out (I should RTFROH more = RTF roll over help)!!

	15-06-2003 09:54									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I disagree about the Russians. With their unique light cavalry, cheap spies and attrition you should be able to stop almost all early attacks while building a stronger econ. Don't rely on it too much though, if your opponent brings lots of scouts and supply wagons your going to have to either take out his scouts or fight him head on. Archers and skirmishers appear to do less damage to supply wagons and multiple units of the same type that fire at the same unit do reduced damage so use that cav. Back to the topic I played the Spanish once and they did seem weak to me, but I'd have to play them some more before I was convinced of that. The Greek powers do seem weak but it seems like other people have had good luck with them. I would think that the research advantage would kick in on slow and expensive and but would not be nearly as good on normal. Frankly I wish slow and expensive was normal and normal was called fast and cheap. This is a much better game on slow and expensive in my opinion.

	15-06-2003 15:39									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Grond Frankly I wish slow and expensive was normal and normal was called fast and cheap. This is a much better game on slow and expensive in my opinion.

I totally agree

	15-06-2003 18:53									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I used to think spain was sucky too, but after I've played them a few times I'm seeing that they really rock in the early stages.

The ruin and scout bonus lets you get 1/2 to an age ahead, and they have a great gunpowder age army, with the only ranged heavy infantry and this age. After this, they don' have much, but then again, not many nations do have anything special after enl.