10-06-2003 19:50									#1
	Are we all criminals? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For example are you a criminal if you commit a crime but you are not caught? Should you be turned in and punished?

Are you a criminal if you use banned substances or drugs like marijuana or you share music with your colleagues?

Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

	10-06-2003 19:55									#2
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pot smokers are a tiny minority, like gays.

	10-06-2003 19:59									#3
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in some countries you are (were) a criminal just because you want(ed) to flee from there.

	10-06-2003 19:59									#4
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

No, and that's precisely why pot should be legalized, and copyright should be completely overhauled to make copies perfectly legal.

	10-06-2003 21:20									#5
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Well Fez thinks we all are .

	10-06-2003 21:57									#6
	Re: Are we all criminals? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave For example are you a criminal if you commit a crime but you are not caught?

IMHO no. But that's really just semantics. It's still immoral to break the law whether you get caught or not.

	10-06-2003 22:02									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well Fez thinks we all are .

Hehehe...

Yup.

	10-06-2003 22:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by oedo in some countries you are (were) a criminal just because you want(ed) to flee from there.

Yes, we all know how awful the USSR was.

	10-06-2003 22:40									#9
	Re: Re: Are we all criminals? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet IMHO no. But that's really just semantics. It's still immoral to break the law whether you get caught or not.

Unless the law sux.

	10-06-2003 22:43									#10
	Re: Re: Re: Are we all criminals? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Unless the law sux.

Bending the law to your advantage, without actually doing anything illegal, is OK too. As an accountant you'd know all about that.

	11-06-2003 00:54									#11
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You're only a criminal if you commit the act, are caught, and are convicted and the law is not some faschist state death spiral.

	11-06-2003 02:07									#12
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We are all criminals if given the chance. Anyone that sees an easy way to get to the money will do so. The people at Enron did it, I did it and all of us do it by downloading music and software without paying for it.

As long as people think they can get away with it they will be criminals...

	11-06-2003 02:29									#13
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The only way not to be criminal is to understand that law doesn't really exist It's just fiction...

	11-06-2003 02:47									#14
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quote: You're only a criminal if you commit the act, are caught, and are convicted and the law is not some faschist state death spiral.

I agree with the third, but not the first two statements. Law cannot be arbitrary, but you are still a criminal if you commit a criminal act and do not get caught.

quote: understand that law doesn't really exist

*sigh. I find myself agreeing with you here Firelad, if you mean a criminal law in a society, and not a moral code. Today in particular, I'm a bit out of sorts on this point.

	11-06-2003 02:57									#15
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Obiwan: Yes, that's actually is what I meant

	11-06-2003 03:00									#16
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You are still a criminal even though you haven't been caught.

	11-06-2003 03:05									#17
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quote: Yes, that's actually is what I meant.

After reading some of the OT threads, I've even more out of sorts on this point.


What are we doing here in Canada?

	11-06-2003 03:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij We are all criminals if given the chance. Anyone that sees an easy way to get to the money will do so.

not ture

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 05:26									#19
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quote: Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

are you trying to confess something..

I agree, the state says we are all criminals, but state also lets most of us walk free most of the time. As long as it knows where. And with whom. And why..

	11-06-2003 05:28									#20
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Down here in Australia we are certainly all criminals.

	11-06-2003 05:31									#21
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You are all guilty of making DLs ?

	11-06-2003 08:19									#22
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Is it possible in Ausrtalia, AH, to trace back your lineage so that you can find out what your original crime was? That would be really cool.

Some people say, "my ancestors were Poles and Germans." But you could say, "my ancestors were heretics and murderers."

	11-06-2003 08:21									#23
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In some cases, yes.

	11-06-2003 08:40									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Lorizael Is it possible in Ausrtalia, AH, to trace back your lineage so that you can find out what your original crime was?

Yes, our crime was being Irish.

	11-06-2003 08:43									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Yes, our crime was being Irish.

That's impossible, most Irish were shot on sight!



ACK!

	11-06-2003 09:07									#26
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NOT TRUE.

The 'all would committ' thing.

At my local community centre/dance hall I once forgot my wallet with $65 and credit cards....FOR TWO DAYS...and it was returned with everything, by mail. That person could've made easy money with zero consequences, but they didn't cause they knew what was right.

A good experiment: Buy a cheap wallet and put 10 dollars in it, and your address and number. 'Forget' it in your local convenience store. See if it is returned to you with the money.

In my opinion there are many good people in the world who will do the right thing regardless of who is or is not watching (and that includes the g o d).

Crime: I believe Socrates was wrong. Sometimes an individual can be ahead of the law, even if it's a democratic, totally legit law. Like copyright, weed, etc.

We have zero moral imperative to obey unjust laws.

	11-06-2003 22:06									#27
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Are you a criminal if you don't commit the act but are convicted?

	11-06-2003 22:08									#28
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In such a circumstance try to take advantage of double jeopardy laws.

	11-06-2003 23:28									#29
	Re: Are we all criminals? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave For example are you a criminal if you commit a crime but you are not caught? Should you be turned in and punished? Are you a criminal if you use banned substances or drugs like marijuana or you share music with your colleagues? Does a state that says that most of its citizens are criminals make sense?

Technically speaking - if your country supports the idea of innocent until proven guilty - that's exactly what you are, innocent until convicted in a court.

As for sharing music - where I stand that's a civil matter, not a criminal one.

Of course this idea of criminalization of all makes sense - to those in charge and intent on retaining their power.

	11-06-2003 23:29									#30
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Are you a criminal if you don't commit the act but are convicted?

Yes. Unless you win your appeal or the conviction is quashed.

Sucks, doesn't it?