11-06-2003 22:58									#1
	Polls - One head one vote vs one faction one vote (FACTION LEADERS ONLY) Remove this text

This poll is for faction leaders only. Each faction please sign below after you vote so we know which faction has voted and which has not. If you are not a faction leader, please go to the other poll to vote.

Last edited by Snowflake on 12-06-2003 at 10:20

	11-06-2003 23:26									#2
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Depends what it's for. If it's interfactional relations, one faction, one vote. For everything else, one person, one vote. That's how I voted.

	12-06-2003 00:10									#3
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Since I dont want to have to click that thing so I can view the results of the poll, I voted XENOBANANA.

So just take away 1 vote from that

	12-06-2003 00:12									#4
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I don't know what you mean by interfactional relations


For example. War us likely between A and B. B hits demand withdrawal and all A's units get turfed from thie hidden positions ( based on an AI decision).

I have not seen this addressed in our rules ( forgive me if it is) but "demand withdrawal" is commonly forbidden in PBEM games. A cries foul while B points out that there is no rule against the use of the game feature.

Would this be interfactional ? Everything else? Even with no formal bloc voting you could see a difference of opinion forming along factional lines.


If the same issue is raised 5 turns earlier ( maybe when A is planning their units positioning) but with no factional dispute, is it interfactional then?



All that said, people seem to be all bothered by this issue. In a normal PBEM the rules are agreed by the players ahead of time and if anything else comes up, the moderator ( Googlie here) decides.

	12-06-2003 01:14									#5
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Oops, I accidently voted for "one person, one vote". Didn't read the rules.

	12-06-2003 01:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I have not seen this addressed in our rules ( forgive me if it is) but "demand withdrawal" is commonly forbidden in PBEM games. A cries foul while B points out that there is no rule against the use of the game feature.

I vaguely remember reading about this somewhere so I did a search. Would this count?

quote: All that said, people seem to be all bothered by this issue. In a normal PBEM the rules are agreed by the players ahead of time and if anything else comes up, the moderator ( Googlie here) decides.

Agree, agree, agree!!! Hopefully everybody will eventually come to this conclusion as you and I already did.

	12-06-2003 01:40									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Static Universe Oops, I accidently voted for "one person, one vote". Didn't read the rules.

No wonder they call us "poll-lovers". Now we got two votes to be taken out.

	12-06-2003 01:47									#8
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It seems advisable for the faction leaders to cast their votes in the form of a post, in addition to via the polling mechanism - In other words each faction leader posts their factions vote so everyone can see it (that was what I had in mind when I talked about roll-call votes in my other proposal). If you want secret ballots, then we would have to e-mail Googlie and he would authenticate/post the results (assuming he has the time/inclination to serve in that capacity - it doesn't sound like much, but if he had to chase people down it could be a PIA).

This way, everyone can see who voted for what, and extraneous or accidental votes (like by Static Universe above) will not affect the outcome. The pollster could leave the choices out of the poll (just some stand-ins or whatever keeps the poll mechanism happy - actually it could just be a regular thread too) to avoid muddying the waters if the listed result differs from the actual faction leader postings. Perhaps some editing of this poll is possible to remove the confusion already introduced.

	12-06-2003 01:53									#9
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one person, one vote

	12-06-2003 02:04									#10
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller It seems advisable for the faction leaders to cast their votes in the form of a post, in addition to via the polling mechanism - In other words each faction leader posts their factions vote so everyone can see it.

That's why I asked in the introduction post that each faction sign after vote.

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Each faction please sign below after you vote so we know which faction has voted and which has not. If you are not a faction leader, please go to the other poll to vote.

quote: Perhaps some editing of this poll is possible to remove the confusion already introduced.

Who is the moderator of this board? Your presence is urgently requested!

	12-06-2003 02:19									#11
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Recount so far: 2 factions voted one person one vote. (Thank you Comrade Chairman for your great support of my humble unofficial poll. And Prime Function you are always so logical and unemotional. ) 3 factions have not voted.

Pirates friends, my information source says that Captain Hercules is planning to visit China in a few days. Please make sure the great Captain's presence so that your faction is appropriately represented.

To friends in the other two factions, this poll is not going to be closed very soon so you still have more than 24 hours if you want to sleep for a while. You faction will not be disadvantaged as long as the sleep does not last too much over 48 hours.

One final question: what if we have 2 votes vs 2 votes with the last faction do not vote? This situation will be unlikely in a one head one vote system but quite possible in a one faction one vote system.

	12-06-2003 02:33									#12
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Recount so far: 2 factions voted one person one vote.

Partially accurate. The cyborg indicated in his post that he was voting for one faction-one vote for interfactional relations. While I have a sense, I am not quite sure what that means.

	12-06-2003 02:37									#13
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and honghu

your link was to rules that were set up for a certain challenge. I was not certain that there was an explicit decision to follow that set as I believe our rules deviate from them somewhat. Do we follow the linked set of rules except where we explicitly say otherwise

	12-06-2003 04:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Depends what it's for. If it's interfactional relations, one faction, one vote. For everything else, one person, one vote. That's how I voted.

I would have thought that this meant a vote for 'one faction - one vote', how much more interfactional can it get?

Literally, it would seem to be a vote for 'none-of-the-above'.

	12-06-2003 08:52									#15
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quote: Originally posted by johndmuller I would have thought that this meant a vote for 'one faction - one vote', how much more interfactional can it get? Literally, it would seem to be a vote for 'none-of-the-above'.

I just did a re-count, not a re-interpretation. (Perhaps we will need Prime Function himself for the latter task.) I took off two votes that are obviously not from any faction leaders. Sadly after many re-counts, I still didn't find the vote for 'one faction - one vote' as you indicated that could be there.

	12-06-2003 09:03									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber and honghu your link was to rules that were set up for a certain challenge. I was not certain that there was an explicit decision to follow that set as I believe our rules deviate from them somewhat. Do we follow the linked set of rules except where we explicitly say otherwise

That's why I used a question mark in my post. That thread started in this Demo Game and people were obviously discussing rules for this game. When Googliegod introduced this set that were set up earlier and indicated that his experience in setting up most games is that these rules are to be followed, this let me believe that it is possible that he meant that these rules can be followed here also (except where we explicitly say otherwise, of course, as you said).

	12-06-2003 09:21									#17
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Lesson :

Read the first post before you vote.

I accidently voted for "one faction, one vote".

	12-06-2003 09:50									#18
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I nearly voted too, as we hive love elections and polls.

	12-06-2003 12:27									#19
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It is getting rather hard to tell what is going on with the actual vote. At present the unadjusted vote shown at the top is:

• 1 PERSON 1 vote..........3
  
• 1 FACTION, 1 vote........2
  
• Write in.........................0
  
• XenoBanana.................1
  

	12-06-2003 14:59									#20
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Eli has confessed to "one faction, one vote" as well. At this rate, we'll be in the negative numbers soon, depending on what Drogue has voted.

	12-06-2003 19:59									#21
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Recount:
1 PERSON 1 vote..........2 (Factions CyCon, Hive)
1 FACTION, 1 vote........0
Write in........................0
XenoBanana.................0

Votes taken out:
1 Person 1 vote .........1 (Comrade Static Universe)
1 Faction 1 vote .........2 (Professor Eli, anonymous)
Write in .....................0
XenoBanaba ..............2 (Comrade Tassadar5000, anonymous)

Prime Function's vote is for 1 person, 1 vote because at the time of the first recount, there was 0 vote for 1 faction, 1 vote option. I trust Captain Flubber would be able to attest to this point. In addition, Prime Function himself would be able to attest to his own vote. I commend Captain johndmuller highly for his great endeavor to search for the truth and fully trust that he would be satisfied with learning the truth.

A note for voters, if you are a faction leader, please identify yourself and your faction's position in the form of a post. Any vote that is not signed by a faction will not be considered valid and will be taken out upon recount. And if you are not a faction leader, DON'T VOTE in this poll! unless you really want to stir the water and confuse everybody some more

	13-06-2003 01:39									#22
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So sorry, pollheads. The title of this poll was ambiguously written - one can (as I did) presume that the 'faction leader only' mofidier applied to who would be casting the faction's one vote, not to who was to vote in this poll.

Give the bedamned polls a rest, why don't you?

Mong - just about disgusted

	13-06-2003 01:44									#23
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My sincerest apologist Mong, I was just trying to help. But you were right that the 'faction leaderonly' modifier applies to who would be casting the faction's one vote. Did I make it more clear, or did I confused you more? Sorry! I'm really trying very hard.

	13-06-2003 01:54									#24
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I was the second anomynous Xenobanana voter - I wanted to look at the results too

-Jam

	13-06-2003 02:00									#25
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And you wanted to vote in each and every poll. Just admit the truth.

	13-06-2003 02:02									#26
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* Jamski breaks down in tears......

Yes, I just..... I just love polls so much..... I'm so sorry..... I LOVE POLLS ....... sorry

* Jamski shuffles off blowing his nose.

-Jam

	13-06-2003 04:00									#27
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For the record drones vote one faction - one vote

	13-06-2003 05:44									#28
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Though I cannot personally attest to what our Ever-Rational Prime Function's opinion was, this is my understanding of it.

One person, one vote, for matters of gameplay importance, but out of roleplaying. This would mean for most of the matters we have discussed so far. Essentially, if it's something that you cannot picture the actual factions discussing amongst one another without destroying the idea that this is a real world, then it is one-person one vote. For example, nobody in the game would be discussing when to submit turns, and what the time limit is... this is out of roleplaying, and out of character.

For other matters, it would be one faction-one vote. These would be actual situations in which we, in character, could encounter, such as between-faction negotiations, or planetary council. This is what he meant by interfactional matters.

My communication implant's been experiencing interference lately, so if our Prime Function could correct me if his message was corrupted during transmition...

	13-06-2003 07:31									#29
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This is all a bit of a mess really but it does require discussion. For instance who has the authority to call an official poll except Googlie I suppose.

In my view to have an official poll in the general forum should require some sort of formula. It could be the assent of a majority of the human factions: it could be the over 50% of the planetary council vote of human factions which would reflect power and growth and a lot of Rp and diplomacy.

In deciding if there is to be an official poll it could also be decided if the particular poll is based on: 1 person 1 vote; 1 faction 1 vote, planetary council faction vote.

In the meantime at this moment our faction, the pirates and I as faction leader, cast our vote for 1 faction 1 vote.

	13-06-2003 19:00									#30
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Recount:

So far for factoin leaders who have left their signatures, the votes are :
1 PERSON 1 vote..........2 (Factions CyCon, Hive)
1 FACTION, 1 vote........2 (Factions Drone, Pirate)
Write in........................0
XenoBanana.................0

Votes taken out:
1 Person 1 vote .........1 (Comrade Static Universe)
1 Faction 1 vote .........2 (Professor Eli, anonymous)
Write in .....................0
XenoBanaba ..............4 (Comrade Tassadar5000, Comrade Caveman who loves polls, anonymous, anonymous)

This add up to:
1 PERSON 1 vote..........3
1 FACTION, 1 vote........4
Write in........................0
XenoBanana.................4

With the caveat that CyCon's position is 1 person 1 vote if out of roleplaying but 1 faction 1 vote if in rollplaying.

Please let me know if any dispute rises regarding this recount.

To the University faction leader, you have one more day to make the decision for the tie-breaking vote.