11-06-2003 22:59									#1
	Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ? Get a bigger avatar today!

On the news today:
The US wants to relocate NATO headquarters from Brussels to another NATO country.
The reason for this is some people that want to sue general Franks for war crimes in Irak, and they want to do this in Belgium, because of special Belgian anti-genocide laws.

I mean, what do they think they can achieve with this ?

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	11-06-2003 23:00									#2
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If the US has nothing to hide, then let him be arrested and tried.

	11-06-2003 23:00									#3
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There weren't any war crimes in Iraq committed by General Franks. So Belgium is engaging in a little slander campaign. So what is the problem with the US moving its base elsewhere?

	11-06-2003 23:01									#4
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I can see war crimes if it turned out the guy really targeted civilians (which I doubt), but genocide? These people must be far more high than I originally anticipated.

	11-06-2003 23:02									#5
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quote: Originally posted by elijah If the US has nothing to hide, then let him be arrested and tried.

It rhymes!

Seriously, though, that's pretty silly. We can extradite and arrest anybody from any country without any evidence on suspicion of war crimes? Shouldn't there be some evidence presented first? Otherwise, it's just a political stunt.

	11-06-2003 23:04									#6
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You know.. actually.. what is Belgium trying to accomplish to try a US military general? What is it trying to do? Spit at the US even more? It is just politics. Nothing of true substance.

Move along.

	11-06-2003 23:07									#7
	Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Flandrien I mean, what do they think they can achieve with this ?

It's all politics... If they want to play their silly little games, the US will play theirs as well.

	11-06-2003 23:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Fez So Belgium is engaging in a little slander campaign.

A common misconception: Belgium is playing the part of judge, not of prosecutor.

	11-06-2003 23:18									#9
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quote: Tommy Franks: war criminal Belgian lawyer Jan Fermon, working with the Stop USA Coalition--Stop United States of Aggression--brought charges against the Pentagon on May 13, using Belgium's 1993 legislation dealing with war crimes and genocide. A Stop USA Coalition document explains, "The complaint is directed against soldiers--who are not identified at this stage--who have committed war crimes. It mentions Gen. Tommy Franks in particular for ordering war crimes and for not preventing others from committing them or for providing protection to the perpetrators.

Yep, figured as much.

-Arrian

	11-06-2003 23:21									#10
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Arem't elephants afraid of mice? (Nah, probably a myth).

I think the real target isn't Franks.

I reckon it's Ariel Sharon - but don't quote me, because putting a soldier on trial is one thing. Putting a head of state on trial is a completely different kettle of fish.

	11-06-2003 23:23									#11
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'Old Europe' cannot be trusted anymore, it's not a matter of this one fella but as someone else said International politics. What Happened last century needs to be forgotten - France,Belgium and Germany are no Allies of ours and therefore should have the headquarters of our 'alliance'.
The Nato headquarters should be in the UK.

	11-06-2003 23:49									#12
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hi ,

they should build the new nato and shape on Malta

they allready have 400 000 unemployed and 40 000 each new year on a working pop of +- 3 750 000 , a couple more for them shall not hurt , .....

luxembourg seems a great new place also , ...

have a nice day

	11-06-2003 23:51									#13
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I am all for it, lets move the Belgium headquarters, UN to France, our Forces in Germany to Poland and our forces in S.Korea to Iraq, fair is fair man.

	11-06-2003 23:57									#14
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Like I said, if they have nothing to hide, then they should face it like men, instead of running away. If they are shown to have NOT committed war crimes, think of the political capital gained!

	11-06-2003 23:59									#15
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We shouldnt care where NATOHQ is, we should just get outa NATO.

	12-06-2003 00:01									#16
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Elijah,
You don't get it. Americans would be targeted for no other reason then being American, we have a big fat target on our ass and other countries would love to hammer some of our boys, there would be no fair trials.
Not as long a countries like Libya and Cuba sit on United Nation Human Rights committees, c'mon the whole thing is a flippin joke.

	12-06-2003 00:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Worthingtons France,Belgium and Germany are no Allies of ours and therefore should have the headquarters of our 'alliance'. The Nato headquarters should be in the UK.

Funny, the last time I checked, France, Belgium and Germany were still in Nato and would have some kind of say in this. If anything, Nato headquarters should be moved EAST towards the center of the alliance bceause it's been expanding eastward

	12-06-2003 00:04									#18
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If it was not a fair trial, the Americans would raise hell. Also, the US would hire its best and brightest to win, so it wont be a fair trial, but in the other direction. Besides, theyre creating more suspicion by staying away.

	12-06-2003 00:07									#19
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It doesnt' matter what we hire if it is a kangaroo court and hit would be, raising all the hell in the world won't help the sacraficial lambs and I am not about to let the boys who die for this country become someone else's puppet, we will take care of our own if they do wrong.

	12-06-2003 00:08									#20
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quote: Originally posted by elijah If the US has nothing to hide, then let him be arrested and tried.

We have nothing to hide, but, neither do we have any confidience in what is obviously a politically motivated kangoroo court.

	12-06-2003 00:09									#21
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hi ,

here is a simple solution
nato and shape out of belgium , belgium out of nato and shape

lets see the next time they come crying for us for a c-5 to transport some troops to africa , ......

have a nice day

	12-06-2003 00:11									#22
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Even if/when the US won you know there'd be just a deadly silence afterwards and everybody would forget about it. However if the US lost they can expect to be reminded about it for the next 35years so its pretty obvious why they'd rather just pretend belgium doesn't exist since it most likely won't on any decent maps made in the US

	12-06-2003 00:11									#23
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I say we pass our own law making it illegal for foreign courts to tie US citizens for war crime or crimes against humanity. We can make it a 20 year sentence to try and that way we can start hounding the leftist scum as well as they can our boys.

Two can play the extra territoriality game.

	12-06-2003 00:12									#24
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quote: Originally posted by elijah If it was not a fair trial, the Americans would raise hell. Also, the US would hire its best and brightest to win, so it wont be a fair trial, but in the other direction. Besides, theyre creating more suspicion by staying away.

Forget it. No trial is necessary because the US did nothing wrong in invading Iraq.. especially not Franks. If there is something this court should be preparing for is perhaps some Iraqi Republican Guard generals or something?

	12-06-2003 00:13									#25
	Re: Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ming It's all politics... If they want to play their silly little games, the US will play theirs as well.

What games are we playing Ming? Don't tell me you can't make a distinction between prosecutor and judge.

If there's anything politicised about this case it's because we sent it to your military tribunals.

	12-06-2003 00:15									#26
	Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Flandrien I mean, what do they think they can achieve with this ?

They might want thier officials to visit NATO headquarters without dieing from laughter brought on by the thought of such asanine charges.

	12-06-2003 00:17									#27
	Re: Re: Re: Why is the USA so afraid of little Belgium ? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Colon What games are we playing Ming? Don't tell me you can't make a distinction between prosecutor and judge. If there's anything politicised about this case it's because we sent it to your military tribunals.

Can you name a single person tried by a military tribunal in the US since the Nazi sabatuers in 1944? I didn't think so especially since one hasn't occured. All Bush has done is point out that under the Geneva & Hague conventions Tribunals are expressly permited.

	12-06-2003 00:18									#28
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quote: Even if/when the US won you know there'd be just a deadly silence afterwards and everybody would forget about it. However if the US lost they can expect to be reminded about it for the next 35years

Bingo. It's lose/lose for the US. I would add this: even if/when the US won, anything "questionable" that was raised at the trial would be harped on for a decade or three as well.

-Arrian

	12-06-2003 00:19									#29
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Sure. Come on and get Tommy. He's had worse on his danged eyeball.

	12-06-2003 00:21									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Worthingtons 'Old Europe' cannot be trusted anymore, it's not a matter of this one fella but as someone else said International politics. What Happened last century needs to be forgotten - France,Belgium and Germany are no Allies of ours and therefore should have the headquarters of our 'alliance'. The Nato headquarters should be in the UK.

France is no ally of yours.....So of course France didn't save Americans in Liberia.

Instead it was....um....JESUS!!!! JESUS came down and brought forth the holy Americans from the Garden of Liberia, and brought them up to heaven, and smited the French for not rescuing them!!! Thats it....Yeah