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The Andy-Man is offline The Andy-Man
Prince
Tory Party of 'Poly
Jul 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:35
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I havn;t read any of his work (read an introduction, and generally know what he has said).

What i'd like to know, is he actualyl anygood? Or is he just one of these 'shock-them' left-wing authors, who stuff only really means anything to people who are ignorant or are new to this sort of subject.

Because, if you ask me, any half intelligent person, more then likeley left wing, will pretty much have grasped everything he seems to rattle on about from their own observations.


So is he just a 'pop-author' who only appeals to dim witted masses who are amazed by reading something that goes against the current norms?

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Andy-Man
I havn;t read any of his work (read an introduction, and generally know what he has said).

What i'd like to know, is he actualyl anygood? Or is he just one of these 'shock-them' left-wing authors, who stuff only really means anything to people who are ignorant or are new to this sort of subject.

Because, if you ask me, any half intelligent person, more then likeley left wing, will pretty much have grasped everything he seems to rattle on about from their own observations?


Chomsky is a strange man. I once saw him speak a few years back. He is very persuasive and has a quiet charisma about him.

He is probably one of the most important thinkers of the 20th century, but not for his politics. His theories about our innate capacities for language use and his view of the mind inaugurated the "cognitive revolution" which is the basis of Cognitive science.

You can read about Chomsky as a philosopher here:

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~pboha...w/newintro.html

As a political thinker he is (a self acknowledged) amateur. He's a sort of Libetarian anarchist who despises both left and right wing totalitarianism. Sometimes he goes a bit overboard, but, as you say, much of what he reports are simply facts - facts, however, that the press ignores.

He's worth a read, but don't submit to the temptation to treat everything he says as gospel (he warns against this himself).

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:47 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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makes some interesting points. read with a critical eye, as you would do with anything really.


a bit off topic, his personality has changed a lot the past few years. according to some greek journalists who met him and interviewed him he seems to believe he's an authenticity of some sort. they were quite offput by his arrogance and absolutism in the way he talked. I'd just thought I'd point that out. I don't know if he was always like that.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:52 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Some claim it's not arrogance... but just the way he consideres himself right on most things. He is an interesting character, with many excellent ideas and provides wonderful insight on some subjects. Well worth reading, even when you disagree with him.

But, as many say... take him with a BIG grain of salt...
Also, he's got some really off the wall POV's.

JCG is offline JCG
Prince
between a rock and a hard place
Feb 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 03:56
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50% of what he writes can make you think a bit, it's interesting enough to reflect upon.

The other 50% can make you...umm....feel very "unfriendly" towards him as a person when you consider some of his more "out of the blue" statements.

Ming is offline Ming
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 04:00 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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If you want a taste of his ideas and thoughts...

http://monkeyfist.com/ChomskyArchive

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 04:10
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I'll be charitable and commend him as an important figure in the philosophy of language.

Edan is offline Edan
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 04:15
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In terms of linguistics, he's great.
In terms of politics... Not so much.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 04:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I'll be charitable and commend him as an important figure in the philosophy of language.


That's unworthy of you Shi; there's no charity needed when it comes to his work on language.

Ming is offline Ming
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 04:38 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Many people don't give him credit for his non political stuff because they can't stand his thoughts on political issues. While I will admit that I must disagree with him on the majority of his political discussions, the rest of his work is quite good.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 05:10
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Noam Chomsky...

Isn't he the Star Trek obsessed studio guy on Frasier?

SnowFire is offline SnowFire
Emperor
New York City, NY
Jan 1970
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His contributions on Language helped Computer Science a good bit too, I might add. Truly a jack-of-all-trades.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 06:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SnowFire
His contributions on Language helped Computer Science a good bit too.


Shhhhhhh! There are too many people here who think philosophy is useless and has no contribution to make to CS .

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 07:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon


That's unworthy of you Shi; there's no charity needed when it comes to his work on language.



(I was being charitable and focusing on his accomplishment WRT language and not on his politics)

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 07:27 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Chomsky Normal Form

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 07:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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What is great about Chomsky's political work is that when you open up his books, they are about 1/3rd source notes. His best political work is on the media. His political analysis of the world is a little one-sided, by which I do not mean he is biased, but rather his work is rather one-dimensional, lacks depth. It's easy to understand, therefore, but it lacks an understanding of the nuances of actual real world politics.

It's a good enough place to start. Just don't remain there.

loinburger is offline loinburger
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Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 08:16 Visit loinburger's homepage!
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Huzzah for the Chomsky Heirarchy.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 08:30
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Actually I like him. He's a leftist, but we need people who inform us about what government has been doing. Too often, the "mainstream" media just ignores world events and US involvement, then we wonder why foreigners come here to kill us. Now, just about everyone has an axe to grind, so the question becomes whether or not personal biases lead to intentional distortions of events, and I see little evidence that Chomsky is dishonest inspite of his critics and politics. That's why I like Christopher Hitchens, another straight shooter from the left...

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Actually I like him. He's a leftist, but we need people who inform us about what government has been doing. Too often, the "mainstream" media just ignores world events and US involvement, then we wonder why foreigners come here to kill us. Now, just about everyone has an axe to grind, so the question becomes whether or not personal biases lead to intentional distortions of events, and I see little evidence that Chomsky is dishonest inspite of his critics and politics. That's why I like Christopher Hitchens, another straight shooter from the left...




I think I'm going to shoot myself.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 09:06
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Why? He's usually anti-government, so he can't be all bad.
It's not like he's demanding that government force Augusta to allow women in as members or something.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:28
  Old Post 12-06-2003 10:50
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Chomsky's work on media can be strident, one-note, and border on conspiracy theory. But his central thesis is, for my money, dead on. Among the points he makes: that the media is fundamentally conservative, because (1) it is a business first -- increasingly a big business -- and one whose first obligation is to other businesses (i.e., advertisiers), not the public -- which makes it incapapble of opposing big business or free-market capitalism in any consistent way; (2) the cost of news-gathering has made the media more and more reliant on "sources" (like government officials) to provide them with news, and thus made them increasingly unwilling to alienate their sources by criticizing them; (3) the structure of journalistic careers is such that the biggest plums -- the White House press corps, for example -- go to people who are good at getting "access" to what they are covering -- which means, again, people who are actually liked by the organizations they are suppoised to be "objectively" covering; that "official Washington" is really a small town, where politicians and the journalists who are supposed to be scrutinizing them live next door to each other, go to the same dinner parties, send their kids to the same schools, date, marry, etc., creating bonds of loyalty between politicians and journalist that override the pretense of objectivity.

As I said, Chomsky can go way over he top on these matters. But for a reasoned, well-documented, well-argued introduction to these ideas, check out Manufacturing Consent, co-authored by Chomsky and Edward Herman. The first chapter should give you a provocative introduction to what he's all about.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
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i liked him better when he talked about linguistics.

he's like a lot of well-regarded professors. both john mearsheimer and bruce cumings are charismatic and wonderful to listen to.

as to whether they're right or not...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
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Jan 1970
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*Ming is surprisingly enlightened on Chomsky ..... I wonder what he has against Robert Fisk*

*End Is Forever* is offline *End Is Forever*
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Jan 1970
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quote:
It's easy to understand, therefore, but it lacks an understanding of the nuances of actual real world politics.


Ah, so that's why all the socialists here love him...

Mercator is offline Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 17:42 Visit Mercator's homepage!
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I only know him as a linguist.
He's rather influential in that field, but I largely disagree with him. I haven't actually read any of his work though.

Plan Austral is offline Plan Austral
King
Poster Formerly known as Kublai-Khan. Buenos Aires - Argentina.
Oct 2001
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  Old Post 12-06-2003 18:14
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I have a relative who is an english teacher, when Chomsky came to Argentina she went to see him thinking it was going to be a conference about linguistic (sp?), but it was him ranting about politics.

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