13-06-2003 00:00									#1
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arr mateys-- well I sees that everyone is makin' a big fuss about the rules and who gets to vote on what. I was jus wonderin' if'n everyone is godfearin' and accepts that nuthin put through by any vote by anybody unless'n it is accepted by googligod.

Googlie could thwart the will o' the majority but otherwise we could could vote fer silly things like the whole world having to have a police state government, or that all ships must be blown up or the university must share all their technology.

I wuldn't even ask but culdn't find anywhere that we said that fer certain

	13-06-2003 00:37									#2
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Captain says: All Power to the Googlies!

	13-06-2003 01:28									#3
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The veto is limited: Googlie, our voluntary CMN, can only decide rules which involve him doing something.
For example on the matter of what to do when the time limit has passed, Googlie can decide whatever he wants. If he simply wants to press "Turn Complete" instead of playing known orders, that's his full right. However, he has nothing to say about what the time limit is, or at least nothing more than any other AXDG participator.

	13-06-2003 02:07									#4
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In a limited number of cases the 1 vote per faction should be the rule.

	13-06-2003 02:11									#5
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What is a god if he doesn't have unlimited power?

But seriously, Googlie is definitely needed for the final say if there are endlessly debate for an issue or if the majority (by faction or people) get to a decision that is clearly unfair to some people like say ships cannot be used until at least two factions have the tech (Pirates friends may not like that but others may like the idea?)

	13-06-2003 02:12									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac The veto is limited: Googlie, our voluntary CMN, can only decide rules which involve him doing something. For example on the matter of what to do when the time limit has passed, Googlie can decide whatever he wants. If he simply wants to press "Turn Complete" instead of playing known orders, that's his full right. However, he has nothing to say about what the time limit is, or at least nothing more than any other AXDG participator.

Maniac

I find that a puzzling place to divide Googlies powers . . . So Googlie must implement some time limit rule ( and couldn't waive it if he saw a reason) but then would have discretion as to penalty applied even if those were explicitly set out . . . hmmm.



My conception of this game was it was a democracy game within a faction and outside that we were playing a pretty normal Pbem with each faction trying to win. In a normal PBEM the parties agree on the rules and then the moderator has the final say on disputes and all undecided rules from then on ( in about 20 PBEMs I have never needed moderator intervention but this was the model).

All the keffuffle about voting led me to realize that maybe my conceptuion of the game was different than most. A whole heck of a lot of people seemed to hold that the majority of players could decide almost anything. What are the limits on this, if any?

	13-06-2003 02:19									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules In a limited number of cases the 1 vote per faction should be the rule.

Ahhh! The great Captain himself is here. Have you voted in the faction leader's poll? I'll go check.

* HongHu running to another thread. *

	13-06-2003 02:27									#8
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quote: All the keffuffle about voting led me to realize that maybe my conceptuion of the game was different than most. A whole heck of a lot of people seemed to hold that the majority of players could decide almost anything. What are the limits on this, if any?

You see the problem.... its a Demo Game, not just a team PBEM. This means all kind of complicated things, since none of us have tried a PBEM ACDG before, and we've half stolen the idea from the PtW Demo game, which has NO moderator...

-Jam

	13-06-2003 03:29									#9
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We Pirates are a bit each of Yin and Yang .

On the one hand, we are said to be tender lovers, great poets, daring and flamboyant adventurers.

On the other hand, we are said to be brutal and violent, heedless, if not ignorant, of anyone else's rights, not to mention their lives, limbs and liberty (We call those the three R's).

That's not to mention our Xenorum, which transcends philosophy.

Speaking in a conciliatory vein from the Yin , it is reasonable that there would be issues suitable for all to have an equal voice as individuals, particularlly things that have already occurred, such as the initial setup of the game, and anything else that is essentially neutral to the competitive aspects of the PBEM, such as whether we call Him GoogliGod, The GooglieGod, Himself, the Googster, Whatshisname, etc. At the same time there are other issues which bear directly on the competitive aspects, such as passing a law relating to the rules of the game (like allowing use off the 'demand withdrawal' glitch on a human faction, allowing trades of bases with AI's, etc) which issues might be better decided on a faction vote.

The problem, I would submit, is not so much whether there is this natural breakdown, which I think is what the CyBorgs were already talking about (if only we could understand what they were saying) when they seemed to vote for both sides in one of those polls - the problem is how to decide which kind of issue it is - is it an issue of general relevance or is it an issue where factional interests are being promoted/abused, whether willfully or inadvertently. In the case at hand, the proponents of cracking down on tardy play are hopefully motivated by a desire to keep the game moving along, a goal I imagine everyone would be kindly disposed toward, to one degrree or another. The parties objecting to the measure, or at least to such hard core enforcement, I believe are fearing that the game will essentially devolve into an election based on membership in the various factions, giving the obvious nod to the most numerous of us here in Poly, rather than a game on Chiron, won or lost on the basis of what happens there.

One could easily imagine this classification of issues to be a proper role for Whatshisname .

On the Yang side, we have a much simpler platform:
One Faction - One Vote; One (dissenting) Person - One Plank

Last edited by johndmuller on 13-06-2003 at 06:09

	16-06-2003 23:10									#10
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The Drones are interested in this 'Plank' Technology. I hope its not only Theory?