15-06-2003 09:42									#31
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I'd also like a definition on this phrase:

"ethnocentric role."

Thanks.

	15-06-2003 09:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Mao Hmmm...small kind of unrelated question: How did Babylon 5 and ST: DS9 end? I *NEVER* caught the series finales of these two, and have always been pissed about it. Can anyone fill me in?

I really don't remember the B% finale. As much as I liked the show (top 5), the last episode did not do much for me.

As for Buffy: I only ever watched it sporadically. Too much spike as time went on. I don;t know if he deserved the whole glorious death thing.

	15-06-2003 10:02									#33
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Starchild:

Thanks! My wife really enjoyed how you encapsulated the themes of each season.

	15-06-2003 14:34									#34
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quote: Thanks! My wife really enjoyed how you encapsulated the themes of each season

Anything for a beautiful lady who happens to share my obsession with a cult TV show.

	15-06-2003 14:49									#35
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Buffy, while good, is still a load of moral relativist, subjective BS that we have had forced down our throats for years in the form of Star Wars, Superman, Bat man, etc etc, the whole good vs evil, good guys vs the evil bad guys who can do no right and only exist to hurt and all the other subjective BS one expects when forced into an ethnocentric role.

Um, you've watched Buffy right?

On the surface, it can appear to be Good (Slayer) vs Evil (Big Bad of the season) but it's much more grey than that. The "good" guys do morally questionable things at times (Buffy nearly kills Faith, Xander and Willow hurt the people they love, Giles kills Ben, Anya never apologisings about a thousand years of being a demon, Buffy is ready to sacrifice the world for Dawn, Buffy nearly kills all her friends, [Angel time:] Angel feeds off of a human, Angel lets Darla and Dru kill a room full of people, Wes tortures people to get information, Fred nearly sends a hated enemy to hell {literally}, Connor and Cordelia murder an innocent women so a mythical birth can happen) The "bad" guys sometimes fight the good fight (Spike helps Buffy stop the Apocalypse, Johnathan betrays the Troika, Andrew redeems himself, Lilah helps Angel stop Gavern, Darla sacrifices herself for Connor, etc).

Even the powerful, mythical gods aren't purely "good/evil". Jasmine, a Power that Be (the "gods" of the Buffyverse), is willing to kill to achieve her goals of peace. This isn't just one death either, it's thousands of dead. The good guys aren't really good. They're just the other guys. They're only considered good because it beats what others like Glory or the First offer.

	15-06-2003 22:22									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Mao Hmmm...small kind of unrelated question: How did Babylon 5

It just petered out. I think one of the Shadow Slave Species still controlled the Centauri government.

quote: and ST: DS9 end?

I remeber that there was a lot of ship-to-ship combat and that some firedemons killed the annoying Bajoran leader and Gul Dukat. My memory is not very reliable.

	16-06-2003 01:45									#37
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quote: It just petered out. I think one of the Shadow Slave Species still controlled the Centauri government.

Yes, the Drakh. Londo is the emperor now but he is under their control, he has some kind of (invisible) parasite over his shoulder. Sadly we will never know how it continues
Note that the last episode, "Sleeping in light" IIRC, is 20 years in the future when Sheridan dies.

DS9: They signed a peace treaty and the Dominion left the alpha cuadrant (Odo too).

	17-06-2003 02:59									#38
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I'm bored so let's play everyone's favourite game, Rate the Apocalypses!

The Master's attempted rising during the Harvest.
The Master's opening of the Hellmouth.
The awakening of the Judge.
The awakening of Alcatha.
The Ascension of the Mayor (note, not technically an Apocaplyse as only Sunnydale would have been destroyed).
The Sisterhood of Jhe attempting to open the Hellmouth.
The Sacrifice of Three trying to open the Hellmouth.
Adam wanted to create an army of human-demon machines (not an Apocalypse per say but very very bad).
Glory activating the Key.
Willow trying to burn the Earth.
The First Evil raising an army of Turok-Han.

	17-06-2003 03:09									#39
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo It just petered out. I think one of the Shadow Slave Species still controlled the Centauri government.

Actually , at the very end (the last episode, 19 years after the end of season 5) Vir is emperor, and Londo and Gkar are dead.

As for the apocalypses: only the Glory one was cool.

	17-06-2003 03:58									#40
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The worst one is Eillow trying to burn the Earth, that one was just pathetic

The sacrifice of three is second worst


As for the best The judge was cool ....

	18-06-2003 08:30									#41
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I'll play!

Actually, Starchild, instead of putting them in "order", I'll just rank them from 1-10 (10 being highest):

7 The Master's attempted rising during the Harvest.

7 The Master's opening of the Hellmouth.

5 The awakening of the Judge.

10 The awakening of Alcatha. Cause Angel was killed

10 The Ascension of the Mayor (note, not technically an Apocaplyse as only Sunnydale would have been destroyed). Cause I love the mayor.

Don't remember: The Sisterhood of Jhe attempting to open the Hellmouth.

5 The Sacrifice of Three trying to open the Hellmouth.

8 Adam wanted to create an army of human-demon machines (not an Apocalypse per say but very very bad). Adam was the boringest of the Big Bads, but season 4 was pretty damned good so it gets a relatively high rating.

10!!! Glory activating the Key.

8 Willow trying to burn the Earth.

3 The First Evil raising an army of Turok-Han. God, Season 7 was such a waste.

	19-06-2003 03:37									#42
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The sad thing is that Adam as a Big Bad had the most potential. He wasn't narrowly defined as the others were because he was something entirely new. They could have used him to explore so much of what it meant to be human and be a demon and how the two philosophies of each conflict.

They only said something like that once, when Adam was first activated. Demons being strong, amoral, but bound to the old ways and traditions. Men being adaptable and technological but emotional and weak. Adam was supposed to be the best of both worlds: Strong, amoral, adaptable and technologically inclined.

Bah. Adam was wasted.

The Sisterhood of Jhe occured in the Zeppo, the ep when Xander was so ignored that he managed to miss out on an Apocalypse.

Gotta love Glory's Apocalypse. Flambouyant and overthetop, just like her. The best part is, of course, that she was willing to doom all the realities in existence to unending, painful chaos just so she could get back home. Now THAT'S a Big Bad that treats us like the unworth insects we are.