13-06-2003 10:13									#1
	Should we land horses on Estonia? Increase Your PM Length

Vox has requested that we land our two Horsemen on North Estonia, in Vox territorry as a show of support and solidarity between the 5 nations that oppose GS'es attempted destruction of Vox even after Vox offered a more than fair peace treaty and actually moved their troops into harms way as a sign of goodwill.

These are the facts of what has happend and a part of the statement released by Vox to the world at large.

	13-06-2003 10:24									#2
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GS not only rejected Vox's offer of peace, but they went as far as to execute the troops that had surrendered to them!

GS cannot not be allowed to have this Continent to themselves. Though Vox will never be a major player again they could be a pain to GS in the future by their very existence.

Every other Civ has pledged their support to Vox, 4 of which have said they will go public with that support. ND is the only not to say so, though they were not asked yet. ND(Borc) has, however, told me that ND will support Vox in this war agianst GS and will Likely supply Vox with Horses. Borc said to me that he realizes the importance of all the reat of the teams to stand together against GS.

The main purpose of the landing is to get GS to accept peace. Failing that, we could re-think our options and even bring our Horsemen home. Or we could use them to help Vox reclaim the North part of Estonia along with GoW troops who would soon be able to send their UU!

I say we the land the Horsemen as a show of support and we call them a "Peace Keeper's" We can even re-name the Horemen to "Peace Keeper Alpha" and "Peace Keeper Bravo" If things don't work towrads peace, then we can simply remove our "PeaceKeeping Force" if we so choose. But we can make that decsion then based upon more information about the situation.

	15-06-2003 04:11									#3
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Public support for Vox has crumbled. They have lost Eliopolis. GoW promised troops but I doubt they sent any, they made no metion of it, gave no public support to Vox, and were recently seen meeting with GS in a private chat.

We cannot risk being the only nation to send troops to Vox. GS hates us enough as it is, and recent discussions to cool things have only begun to thaw our chilly relations.

In my mind it is far more important that we proceed with a luxury exchange with GS, and we secretly funnel Iron to Vox, if they so request it (by giving Iron on our turn, they accept, upgrade, then they CANCEL THE DEAL the same turn)

There is little that can be done to save Vox and clearly our 2 horses won't save them. I do not see any benefit from such a landing.

--Togas

	15-06-2003 04:33									#4
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GF PM'ed me that they in fact did land Troops in North Estonia. I'm sorry we could show our support of Vox in this way.

I understand the reasons not to land, but I felt the reason too land outweighed not landing.

	15-06-2003 04:40									#5
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As I said before, peacekeepers do not belong on a battlefield. As long as Estonia is a battlefield, don't send peacekeepers.

Don't bother GS anymore, we have to keep them off our shores, putting horses on their territory won't help much to achieve that goal

Aidun

	15-06-2003 04:55									#6
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I agree with you, Togas.

If I were GS I would not stop until Vox is completely eliminated, despite of having all the other nations against me.

The only way of effectively slowing down GS's pace of growth is selling iron to Vox or attaking the south of Estonia with a well sized force (but we would have to face revenge in the future). This second option would seriously compromise our nation's defense and development, so the only thing I think we can do is suppling iron.

On the other hand, forging good relations with GS could help us in the future when we execute our Reconquista Master Plan...

	15-06-2003 05:05									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Togas In my mind it is far more important that we proceed with a luxury exchange with GS, and we secretly funnel Iron to Vox, if they so request it (by giving Iron on our turn, they accept, upgrade, then they CANCEL THE DEAL the same turn) --Togas

You do know that by doing this, we are leaving ourselves open for another peace renegotiation bug crash....

E_T

	15-06-2003 12:54									#8
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Not, maybe, if we all upgrade to 1.21...

	16-06-2003 00:21									#9
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I am aware that I am late, and that I was one of those who pushed the plans for helping vox at the beginning, but unless we can get lots of things for it we should not land. We should aid Vox wiht Iron and whatever but not with troops. Although I am now concerned that we have so far got no payment for our involvement in this war....

	16-06-2003 02:26									#10
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I would hasten to second the opinion of my learned friend and associate, Senor Winterus.

Don Iago Calamari de Toledo