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Which state do you hate most? (Time out:0 days after 14-06-2003, 02:39)
California
Texas
New York
Florida
New Jersey
Massachussets or NH, Maine
Mississippi, or Arkansas
Illinois, or Indiana
Colorado
Virginia, or West Virginia
Alabama
Vermont
Conneticutt, or Rhode Island
Pennsylvania
Ohio
Utah
Montana, or Wyoming
Arizona or New Mexico
Missouri or Kansas
Louisiana
South Carolina, or North Carolina
North Dakota, SD
Other
New Bananastan
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Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm sorry, I'd think that 1/3rd of your population supporting the enemy would be more of a scale than one regiment from every state.


But it was. The South spent the entire war quashing rebellions from unionists, a constant headache to Jeff Davis, considering the South's secession arguments. Every Southern state with the exception of South Carolina experienced uprisings. Numerous counties refused to secede, and others declared their own independence from the CSA.

By the time they were losing the war, Davis couldn't raise troops anymore because the various states simply refused to send them. This led Davis to curse one of the supposed cornerstones of the South--States' Rights.

Won't get that kind of picture on markers.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
So? If he was as great a Calvery Commander as everyone says, Shermans supply lines would have been severed, and the army would have had to really live off the land.


Sherman was picking up Southern defectors left and right. It got to a point where he had to turn away thousands who wanted to join him on his march to the sea (most of whom tended to be black slaves, naturally).

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
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  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:42 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Sherman was picking up Southern defectors left and right. It got to a point where he had to turn away thousands who wanted to join him on his march to the sea (most of whom tended to be black slaves, naturally).


that would fall under the Unionst deal.

Unfortunately, retreating Confederate troops had a tendeancy to burn stuff.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:46
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quote:
Won't get that kind of picture on markers.


Like I said, are you going to find how American patriots tarred and feathered English tax collectors (ie, TERRORISM) on historical markers.

quote:
If he was as great a Calvery Commander as everyone says, Shermans supply lines would have been severed, and the army would have had to really live off the land.


Might as well wait for MtG to straighten you out, but Forrest is considered the greatest calvery commander of the war. Sheridan and Stuart are the only ones even in the same class as him.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:52
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quote:
Why? Because it happened Ft Pillow doesn't even *mention* the massacre! The effects should be mentioned, along with the Massacre. There is no "fair and Balanced" view of Forrest, it's all "He was a hero".


Yeah, because all of the hate towards Nathan Bedford Forrest just isn't around. It just... doesn't exist. Suuure.. I mean really, there are few others who are loathed as much in American textbooks (Bendict Arnold being closest).

quote:
My point is the Torie problem is mentioned in Textbooks and on the landscape. The Unionst issue isn't.


Really? Then why do most Americans not seem to think there was any opposition on home soil during the revolution? The Tory problem was mentioned maybe only in passing in my high school history books. No more than two lines.

The Unionist problem in the South was also mentioned in my text books and given the same amount of time as the Tory problem.

quote:
You, as a law student, are giving your blessing for distorting the past?


So, am I correct in assuming that you want historical markers to say how Americans engaged in terrorism up and down the east coast? Or do you want to distort the past? Is that it?

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
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Aug 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Won't get that kind of picture on markers.


Like I said, are you going to find how American patriots tarred and feathered English tax collectors (ie, TERRORISM) on historical markers.


You'll find them all over, say, Colonial Williamsburg!

I've also seen Torie markers in north Carolina.


quote:

Might as well wait for MtG to straighten you out, but Forrest is considered the greatest calvery commander of the war. Sheridan and Stuart are the only ones even in the same class as him.


Might as well. I was unaware I said he was a crappy Calvery fighter. I'm of the opinion that ole "Hit-em Again" was a great Calvery type, but not the invincible warrior History Markers portray him as.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:55
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quote:
You'll find them all over, say, Colonial Williamsburg!


When I went to Colonial Williamsburg, I never noticed tarring and feathering of loyalists and burning down their homes .

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:56
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Btw, just for curiousity, how many historical markers are there for areas where Americans slaughtered Native American tribes?.... just wondering.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Yeah, because all of the hate towards Nathan Bedford Forrest just isn't around. It just... doesn't exist. Suuure.. I mean really, there are few others who are loathed as much in American textbooks (Bendict Arnold being closest).


You wouldn't get that impression from Tennesse historical Markers.

quote:

Really? Then why do most Americans not seem to think there was any opposition on home soil during the revolution? The Tory problem was mentioned maybe only in passing in my high school history books. No more than two lines.


And pro-unionsts were mentioned not at all.

quote:

The Unionist problem in the South was also mentioned in my text books and given the same amount of time as the Tory problem.


You must have a different History Textbook than I did. The only Pro-unionsts mentioned in my books were, of course, the Blacks.

quote:

So, am I correct in assuming that you want historical markers to say how Americans engaged in terrorism up and down the east coast? Or do you want to distort the past? Is that it?


[Tom Cruise] I WANT THE TRUTH!!!!!![/Tom Cruise}

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:57
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Cavalry, gentlemen, Cavalry.

Space05us is offline Space05us
King

Nov 2001
time: 17:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:58
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California is the poo-hole of the world, Jersey is a great place in comparison.

and come on guys, how can you hate Texas? Its the second largest state in the country

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:59
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[Tom Cruise] I WANT THE TRUTH!!!!!![/Tom Cruise}

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!

Sorry someone had to do it.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 08:59
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quote:
You wouldn't get that impression from Tennesse historical Markers.


Which are there to celebrate the victories. Why would a state put up markers saying how bad it was? Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?

quote:
You must have a different History Textbook than I did. The only Pro-unionsts mentioned in my books were, of course, the Blacks.


I distinctly reading about brigades from Virginia, Louisiana, and the Carolinas coming up through the newly created West Virginia (ALSO showing pro-unionist sentiment in the South) to join the Union cause.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
You'll find them all over, say, Colonial Williamsburg!


When I went to Colonial Williamsburg, I never noticed tarring and feathering of loyalists and burning down their homes .


You need a lifetime membership, like me.

To answer your Native American question; Not nearly enough. Places like "Devils Tower" in Wyohming (from Close Encounters) have been stripped of their Native names mostly because of their spiritual importance.

Albert Speer is offline Albert Speer
Emperor
Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 09:00
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Why is the rest of Jersey rich but Camden is poor?

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 09:01 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
[Tom Cruise] I WANT THE TRUTH!!!!!![/Tom Cruise}

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!

Sorry someone had to do it.


:: throws Lies Across America at DD ::

Imran was suppose to answer!

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Albert Speer
Why is the rest of Jersey rich but Camden is poor?


Proximity to the Philedelphia Disempowerment Zone.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 09:04
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quote:
Why is the rest of Jersey rich but Camden is poor?


Because Camden is a shithole next to Philly.. next?

quote:
:: throws Lies Across America at DD ::


You do realize that that book's author is so utterly and shoddily bad at research (to the point of making up cites) that it doesn't belong anywhere near a discussion.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 09:09 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Why is the rest of Jersey rich but Camden is poor?


Because Camden is a shithole next to Philly.. next?

quote:
:: throws Lies Across America at DD ::


You do realize that that book's author is so utterly and shoddily bad at research (to the point of making up cites) that it doesn't belong anywhere near a discussion.


Really? What did he make up?

Incidently, some of the thing's he wrote I had already heard, at Texas A&M of all places.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 09:16
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quote:
Really? What did he make up?


Let me link you to a discussion of this on another forum:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...Teacher+Told+Me

It's a good start, and I recommend the link (by the poster named 'spoke-') which actually debates Nathan Bedford Forrest and speaks about how Lowell writes about him using half-truths and wrong cites.

(Warning... long and starts off as a debate about the Georgia state flag)

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...?threadid=57812

Promethus is offline Promethus
Settler
Battle Creek, Michigan
Jan 2002
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 10:38
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Here's to the State of Mississippi
By Phil Ochs

Here's to the state of Mississippi,

For Underheath her borders, the devil draws no lines,
If you drag her muddy river, nameless bodies you will find.
whoa the fat trees of the forest have hid a thousand crimes,
the calender is lyin' when it reads the present time.
Whoa here's to the land you've torn out the heart of,
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of!

And here's to the people of Mississippi
Who say the folks up north, they just don't understand
And they tremble in their shadows at the thunder of the Klan
The sweating of their souls can't wash the blood from off their hands
They smile and shrug their shoulders at the murder of a man
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

And here's to the schools of Mississippi
Where they're teaching all the children that they don't have to care
All the rudiments of hatred are present everywhere
And every single classroom is a factory of despair
There's nobody learning such a foreign word as fair
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

And here's to the cops of Mississippi
They're chewing their tobacco as they lock the prison door
Their bellies bounce inside them when they knock you to the floor
No they don't like taking prisoners in their private little war
Behind their broken badges there are murderers and more
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

And, here's to the judges of Mississippi
Who wear the robe of honor as they crawl into the court
They're guarding all the bastions of their phony legal fort
Oh, justice is a stranger when the prisoners report
When the black man stands accused the trial is always short
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

And here's to the government of Mississippi
In the swamp of their bureaucracy they're always bogging down
And criminals are posing as the mayors of the towns
And they hope that no one sees the sights and no one hears the sounds
And the speeches of the governor are the ravings of a clown
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

And here's to the laws of Mississippi
Congressmen will gather in a circus of delay
While the Constitution is drowning in an ocean of decay
Unwed mothers should be sterilized, I've even heard them say
Yes, corruption can be classic in the Mississippi way
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

And here's to the churches of Mississippi
Where the cross, once made of silver, now is caked with rust
And the Sunday morning sermons pander to their lust
The fallen face of Jesus is choking in the dust
Heaven only knows in which God they can trust
Oh, here's to the land you've torn out the heart of
Mississippi find yourself another country to be part of

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 11:55 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by cyclotron7
Why isn't that sh*t-hole Nevada in this poll?

Shi, that makes me feel very sad...


hey! some of us live in that state. voluntarily even

H Tower is offline H Tower
Emperor

Jul 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 12:01
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You grouped Indiana together with Illinois?

I demand that whoever voted for Illinois/Indiana come forward and say that they were really only voting for Indiana and that Illinois just got in the way

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
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I voted for California.

All the californians are moving to my state for better job opportunities and much, much lower taxes.

Yet the first thing they do is vote for more taxes

They are turning my state into another California!

If taxes get too bad I'll have to move to Idaho or Utah. But those states are boring, and I'd rather not do that.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
time: 13:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 18:48
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Texas is way ahead in the lead

Elok is offline Elok
Prince
Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 19:07
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Utah. At least NJ supplies us with something useful in the form of...idunno, whatever industry is polluting the place so much. Utah has nothing but salt and ugly national parks with no plants in them. Down with Utah.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 19:27
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Texas... hands down.

No where on Earth will you find such a collection of evil oil men. Too bad one of them is president.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 19:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
No where on Earth will you find such a collection of evil oil men.
Alaska.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
Prince
Detroit
Sep 2001
time: 05:28
  Old Post 14-06-2003 20:00
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Ohio sucks donkey balls. d*ckhead cops who like to write lots of tickets for going 5 over the speed limit.

And all the women have moustaches

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:28
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Utah has beautiful national parks!!

What do you want? a rainforest?

There are plenty of plants in Utah. You should check out their national forests.

Yeah sure some of the national parks are deserty, but until you see the mojave desert, you haven't seen real deserty.

I love Utah, if it wasn't so conservative and boring (in terms of city night life), I'd live there.

 
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