15-06-2003 20:30									#31
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Anyone who doesn't think this is better than previous eras, you can go live in them for all I care.

	15-06-2003 20:39									#32
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Anyone who doesn't think this is better than previous eras, you can go live in them for all I care.

The question people is NOT which era is better people!

The question is what makes for a fully fulfilled and successful life. Is there one general standard (as the Greeks believed), or is there none?

I asked the question about the hunter to force people to think: are the material benefts of modernity an aid to reaching such a life, are they opf no importance to reaching such a life, are they a hindrance to reaching such a life?

	15-06-2003 20:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Does Freedom mean the good life? can someone fulfill themselves while in bondage? Can someone fulfill themselevs without ANY bonds?

To come back to this, yes IMO, freedom plays an important role here.

I donīt know what you mean by "Can someone fulfill themselves without ANY bonds?", but I guess the vast majority of people wouldnīt speak of a good life without certain freedoms. Because I canīt imagine how I would fulfill myself with lots of restrictions (imposed on me by others) around me. It seems another thing when you choose a situation for yourself willingly which implies restrictions (which you know before) too.

	15-06-2003 20:49									#34
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I asked the question about the hunter to force people to think: are the material benefts of modernity an aid to reaching such a life, are they opf no importance to reaching such a life, are they a hindrance to reaching such a life?

I absolutely think certain benefits of modernity (not only material) are indeed an aid (not a garanty) for a good life. That doesnīt mean nobody could be happy in the middle ages too. However, if I compare chances of ordinary people in Germany today with chances of ordinary people some thousand years before in this area, I think we are better of now, not because every German now is happy (or happier), but everyone now has more chances to make something more of his life....

	15-06-2003 21:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro For example (compared to ancient Greece): no slavery anymore (when we leave out some "quasi-slaves" in poor third world countries). At least not as base for our economy. Also: killing your children when you are poor is hardly neccessary in our (western) societies anymore. And Iīd think women have more to say in modern Greece than in ancient times.... Of course that doesnīt mean that everything today is nice....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't slavery praticed today in a couple of African countries?

And aren't impoverished prostitutes in Eastern Europe treated no better than slaves?

By only pointing out the progress made in Western countries, we risk overlooking such problems in other parts of the world.

	15-06-2003 22:09									#36
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quote: Originally posted by GePap So here I am to ask one of the really BIG questions: is there such a thing as the good life?

You define what a good life for you is, then live it. If you think being a buddhist monk in Nepal to pursue spiritual enlightenment is the good life, go for it. If you think being a hedonist to satisfy your earthly cravings is living the good life, hey, it's your choice. If

quote: Originally posted by GePap Or we could keep the question more precise. For example; do you live a better life, than say, some neolithic hunter in the jungles? Why, or why not?

Well yes, because I define it that way

	15-06-2003 22:39									#37
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't slavery praticed today in a couple of African countries? And aren't impoverished prostitutes in Eastern Europe treated no better than slaves?

Therefore I used the term "quasi-slaves". And you may be right about prostitutes in Eastern Europe, but still slavery isnīt the major principle which runs the entire economy there (and these methods are often illegal, or at least half-legal). It doesnīt have the same dimension or economical importance as the slavery known from the ancient world. That doesnīt make these modern cases good, but it points IMO to a different view on those cases compared to ancient slavery.

	15-06-2003 23:00									#38
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Therefore I used the term "quasi-slaves". And you may be right about prostitutes in Eastern Europe, but still slavery isnīt the major principle which runs the entire economy there (and these methods are often illegal, or at least half-legal). It doesnīt have the same dimension or economical importance as the slavery known from the ancient world. That doesnīt make these modern cases good, but it points IMO to a different view on those cases compared to ancient slavery.

Isn't using the term "quasi-slaves" sugar-coating?

Would it be inaccurate to call it what it is -- slavery?

	15-06-2003 23:06									#39
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I used it because it is not "officially" slavery. Sure this doesnīt help people in such situations, but this difference reflects how the majority of people even in those countries thinks about slavery (as not moral).

	15-06-2003 23:09									#40
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Ummmm I don't think there is one 'good life' that can be applied to any collective people. I believe that something different works, for each person. For some, a simpler life, full of nature is what is best, while for others, the city life, surrounded by culture and friends is happiest. Still others find something completely different.

	15-06-2003 23:18									#41
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actually there is a major crack down on nations like Greece and Turkey because of their human trafficking.

Not all the humans being sold are prostitutes, others are used as slave labour or near slave labour. It was on CNN webpage a few days ago, I don't see it there now.

Sad to see so much human trafficking still going on.

	15-06-2003 23:21									#42
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Ummmm I don't think there is one 'good life' that can be applied to any collective people. I believe that something different works, for each person. For some, a simpler life, full of nature is what is best, while for others, the city life, surrounded by culture and friends is happiest. Still others find something completely different.

I don't think anyone can really dictate (even philosophically) for others what a good life would be for all people -- it's just not possible because of individuality.

	15-06-2003 23:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro And Iīd think women have more to say in modern Greece than in ancient times....

That's the problem.


























Actually some of the most educate people in ancient Greece was the Heteres. Erm, think concubines of very high standard.

	15-06-2003 23:49									#44
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As for today's world I'd think that medical care, freedom and human conditions of life and employment for as many people as possible is a big achievement.

Also a big achievement is the human rights code that today is taken for granted but wasn't before. Colonialism etc.

	16-06-2003 00:10									#45
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 That's the problem.

	16-06-2003 00:23									#46
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I don't know.

It's kind of pointless judging one group from a different group's perspective.

Certainly, the truly free in the Western World are those that give up on the rat race and do their own thing.

But I think judging a whole culture or group as being "better" or "worse" is to overlook what the individual people of that group feel.

You can feel "good" about being a mass murderer. Or "bad" about being a saint.

	16-06-2003 05:45									#47
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ooo I wanna go back, I wanna go back, I wanna go back to the gooood life.

I wanna go back yeah!


Lurking around told me that there was a good time...but maybe that's just me seeing through rose-coloured lenses