15-06-2003 07:23									#1
	The Good life Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I used to hear how the poly Ot used to be more laid back, about nice big arguements and not all political. Also, all these economic threads are so

So here I am to ask one of the really BIG questions: is there such a thing as the good life? (not, not just a SMAC social engeneering choice) Is there a way of life that is more natural for humans as a whole? What about a way of life that helps man reach his greatest potential?

Or we could keep the question more precise. For example; do you live a better life, than say, some neolithic hunter in the jungles? Why, or why not?

	15-06-2003 07:43									#2
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yes, because i think i enjoy life more than a neolithic hunter

	15-06-2003 09:06									#3
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And what makes you say that?

( I guess Poly people like the political shouting matches better)

	15-06-2003 09:08									#4
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Just watch The Gods Must Be Crazy it discusses all of this

	15-06-2003 09:09									#5
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because i have to sit down and contemplate things like this, rather than chasing buffalo

	15-06-2003 09:10									#6
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"For example; do you live a better life, than say, some neolithic hunter in the jungles? "

Decidedly. It's not even in question, as pretty much the entirety of mankind decided not to remain neolithic hunters.

	15-06-2003 09:10									#7
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While funny, the movie leave much unanswered.

Do you think there is sucha thing as "The good life" Ted?

( , what will Ted do?)

	15-06-2003 09:12									#8
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT "For example; do you live a better life, than say, some neolithic hunter in the jungles? " Decidedly. It's not even in question, as pretty much the entirety of mankind decided not to remain neolithic hunters.

Did man decide? or did they just move on one way, without really ever thinking about it? I mean, the Aborigenes stayed neolithic hunters for 40,000 years with little porblem.

	15-06-2003 09:12									#9
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I think it was obvious the people in the villiage were VERY happy

	15-06-2003 09:15									#10
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Which village? You mean the Bushman's group? If they were so happy, why all the animosity with the bottle? Pent up, latent anger perhaps?

	15-06-2003 09:17									#11
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Uhhh like when they got rid of the bottle they were happy again. That was the whole point of the movie.

	15-06-2003 09:21									#12
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Yes, the Good life would be a life most obedient to God's will. Of course, what that will is can be hard to discern for some..

	15-06-2003 09:23									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Uhhh like when they got rid of the bottle they were happy again. That was the whole point of the movie.

Yes, but were they using the bottle as an excuse for thier latent hatred of each other?

Anyway, whom do you think lived a better life: the bushman, or say the scientist? (everything taken together)

	15-06-2003 09:24									#14
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No there was no latent hatred you are reading too much into it.

The bushman had the better life easily

	15-06-2003 11:19									#15
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From my experience I am most happy when I feel effective. I think in simpler times it was far easier for people to feel effective, the world is so complicated these days and changing so rapidly that many people seek escape in drugs, TV, other addictions. There is more anxiety in the world today than ever before (just my opinion, I wasn't around 100, 200, 5000 years ago so I can't truly judge objectively).

On the other hand, learning and expanding as a person is also very satisfying and I suppose there is more opportunity for this now than say as a hunter/gatherer for example.

I'm tired. I'm gonna rest. I can be grateful that I have a bed (or a matress anyway ), I think much of "the good life" lies in appreciation.

- Narz

	15-06-2003 11:48									#16
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Of course there is such a thing as "the good life." I'm living it.

	15-06-2003 12:28									#17
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quote: Yes, the Good life would be a life most obedient to God's will.

Agreed, though God will have different people do different things in their lives, according to our talents.

Gepap:

Not all of Apolyton's posters favour the political debates, I rather like these more philosophical questions. They tend to bring out the personality rather than a programmed response.

	15-06-2003 13:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT "For example; do you live a better life, than say, some neolithic hunter in the jungles? " Decidedly. It's not even in question, as pretty much the entirety of mankind decided not to remain neolithic hunters.

I am under the impression that some posters on the OT forum have chosen to remain neolithic thinkers.

	15-06-2003 13:58									#19
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because I can get drunk, get laid by 20 women at the same time in a whorehouse, go to a casino and win millions of dollars, drive in my car that blasts over 100 watts of music into my ears, see millions of women naked on things called computers, hike in beautiful locations not out of necessity- but for leisure, and finally play computer games that challenge my intellect and still entertain me.

	15-06-2003 14:05									#20
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quote: some posters on the OT forum have chosen to remain neolithic thinkers.

Aaah. The good old days. Clubbing a woman and taking her home if you liked her. None of the hassles of today's modern world.

	15-06-2003 14:21									#21
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I think the obvious rise in comfort (perk of the modern society) is very good news, and there is little surprise so many people strive for it. To live in a society of plenty, where you have to bother little for tomorrow's food (in our modern societies, how much of our money goes to food ? 15% ?), is necessary on the way to make us fully human, i.e fully different from an animal whose only concern is to eat and reproduce.

The more modern the society, the smaller our worries for physiologic demands. And I think that's the good way to live the "good life", as humans. However, the fact that we are gaining increasing consciousness and knowledge with it means that we have to make tough decisions.

In The Gods Must Be Crazy, I think the problems comes from the shock at which modernity has arrived. Not from modernity itself.

	15-06-2003 16:01									#22
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If we all have enough time to waste certain amounts of it here, our lives can´t be that bad

	15-06-2003 16:04									#23
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quote: To live in a society of plenty, where you have to bother little for tomorrow's food (in our modern societies, how much of our money goes to food ? 15% ?)

> 40% of income in every croatian home, more for the poorer folk.

	15-06-2003 16:08									#24
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That is really much. I would think in most of western Europe people spend most of their money for living in a flat or a house etc.

I spend more ca. 1/3 - 1/2 of my money only for that.

Last edited by BeBro on 15-06-2003 at 16:14

	15-06-2003 16:17									#25
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Yes, it is much. The problem is our version of communism got us used to a relatively high living standard and after it collapsed people struggled to keep their habits. Most had to give up skiing in the winter, some had to give up sea in the summer, but who wants to give up eating decently? Not if we can help it

	15-06-2003 20:06									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I think the obvious rise in comfort (perk of the modern society) is very good news, and there is little surprise so many people strive for it. To live in a society of plenty, where you have to bother little for tomorrow's food (in our modern societies, how much of our money goes to food ? 15% ?), is necessary on the way to make us fully human, i.e fully different from an animal whose only concern is to eat and reproduce.

What makes one trully human? The only things that sets us of from the animals is our sentience. Are you saying that only once we become fully domesticated ourselves we can excersice it? Do you meant to say that a bushman that lives the "traditional" life is not as human as you or I?

And what gains have we made in"being human" since the first cities were founded 6000-7000 years ag? Or, to think of a smaller timeframe, since the Greeks, 2600 years ago?

	15-06-2003 20:12									#27
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OF COURSE this is better than neolithic times. Back then, they had to surf 'Poly in a text-based browser

	15-06-2003 20:14									#28
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And what gains have we made in"being human" since the first cities were founded 6000-7000 years ag? Or, to think of a smaller timeframe, since the Greeks, 2600 years ago?

For example (compared to ancient Greece): no slavery anymore (when we leave out some "quasi-slaves" in poor third world countries). At least not as base for our economy.
Also: killing your children when you are poor is hardly neccessary in our (western) societies anymore. And I´d think women have more to say in modern Greece than in ancient times....

Of course that doesn´t mean that everything today is nice....

	15-06-2003 20:17									#29
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And what if anything does that have to do with defining the good life? To make the point again: the Greeks certainly believed there was sucha thing as "The Good life", and they had slaves, and they saw no problem with it, like 100% of humanity until just a few centuries ago (back then, does anyone actually think that a slave who became a freeman would not keep his own slaves?)

Does Freedom mean the good life? can someone fulfill themselves while in bondage? Can someone fulfill themselevs without ANY bonds?

	15-06-2003 20:25									#30
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And what if anything does that have to do with defining the good life?

For me, it has quite a lot to do with it

quote: To make the point again: the Greeks certainly believed there was sucha thing as "The Good life", and they had slaves, and they saw no problem with it, like 100% of humanity until just a few centuries ago (back then, does anyone actually think that a slave who became a freeman would not keep his own slaves?)

Maybe they saw no problem with it, but you asked about good life in general, not only for a certain group of people who secure "good life" for themselves by denying others the same. Because who should have such a "good life", who not?

And when you have to kill one of your children to make sure the rest of your family survives it doesn´t sound really like a good life....