16-06-2003 20:02									#61
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quote: They kill people? OK, cannabis doesn't kill, but the others do

LEGALISE!!

Its down to the individual to decide whether they want to kill themselves imo, their lives, their decision.

quote: Not an option. If the legal stuff is more expensive than the black market

If it is taxed very very highly, it'll still be cheaper than dealers, and less hassle than growing it.

Certainly if it is legalised, it wont be a gateway drug.

	16-06-2003 20:28									#62
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im for legalizing. i cant wait for canada pass it so i can go take weekly trips to BC

	17-06-2003 00:20									#63
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Drug Watch International Position Statement...

quote: The use of illicit drugs is illegal because of their intoxicating effects on the brain, damaging impact on the body, adverse impact on behavior, and potential for abuse. Their use threatens the health, welfare, and safety of all people, of users and non-users alike. Legalization would decrease price and increase availability. Availability is a leading factor associated with increased drug use. Increased use of addictive substances leads to increased addiction. As a public health measure, statistics show that prohibition was a tremendous success. Many drug users commit murder, child and spouse abuse, rape, property damage, assault and other violent crimes under the influence of drugs. Drug users, many of whom are unable to hold jobs, commit robberies not only to obtain drugs, but also to purchase food, shelter, clothing and other goods and services. Increased violent crime and increased numbers of criminals will result in even larger prison populations. Legalizing drugs will not eliminate illegal trafficking of drugs, nor the violence associated with the illegal drug trade. A black market would still exist unless all psychoactive and addictive drugs in all strengths were made available to all ages in unlimited quantity. Drug laws deter people from using drugs. Surveys indicate that the fear of getting in trouble with the law constitutes a major reason not to use drugs. Fear of the American legal system is a major concern of foreign drug lords. Drug laws have turned drug users to a drug-free lifestyle through mandatory treatment. 40% - 50% are in treatment as a result of the criminal justice system. A study of international drug policy and its effects on countries has shown that countries with lax drug law enforcement have had an increase in drug addiction and crime. Conversely, those with strong drug policies have reduced drug use and enjoy low crime rates. The United States and many countries would be in violation of international treaty if they created a legal market in cocaine, marijuana, and other drugs. The U.S. is a signatory to the Single Convention on Narcotics & the Convention on Psychotropic Substances, and has agreed with other members of the United Nations to control and penalize drug manufacturing, trafficking, and use. 112 nations recently reaffirmed their commitment to strong drug laws.

	17-06-2003 00:33									#64
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Elijah:

quote: Bare in mind that the problems in the inner cities with drugs (and believe me I know), are to do with illegal drugs being supplied by dealers, thus fuelling much of the crime. By legalising it, they will not be able to remain in business supplying marijuana, thus removing part of that problem.

why would they not be able to remain in business? Do you even know the little tricks that are done to thicken up blunts and dime bags? Boys take enough weed for two blunts and throw in some other **** to make it look like three blunts-worth real easy...

and there's also lacing just to get the weed smokers coming back for more...

quote: They will only be able to do harder, illegal stuff, in which case, the social taboos and far fewer number of users of harder drugs would make them somewhat more vulnerable to police action.

crack usage has dropped dramatically since the 80's... i wonder why... did the war on drugs work for crack? maybe it's working for weed too... especially since i heard nobody really smoked weed back in the 80's, it's more of a recent resurgence.

quote: Most of the arguments for keeping cannabis illegal are generally authoritarian, and generally on the right. These are views that have been heavily countered of late as people understand more and more about the issues behind them, and not the "common sense" facards, and also with this issue, people understand more than they did 4 years ago.

At least I can take comfort in the fact that almost everyone from apolyton is in rich, marxist cracker-ville... the vast majority of americans are completely opposed to drug legalization.

quote: Its down to the individual to decide whether they want to kill themselves imo, their lives, their decision.

great... let's get all the kids with no fathers smoking up...

quote: If it is taxed very very highly, it'll still be cheaper than dealers, and less hassle than growing it.

Again like i said before... weed will still be lace-able and still double-able... what the young boys on the corner sell will easily fetch a cheaper price than legit companies


thanks

	17-06-2003 01:47									#65
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quote: great... let's get all the kids with no fathers smoking up...

I have no problem with that. I've said before, I don't believe there should age limits for any 'drug' whether it be alcohol or drugs. They want to **** themselves up, not my place to tell them no.

	17-06-2003 01:54									#66
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in good concience I cannot support marijuana being illegal because it has less harmful effects of tobacco and alcohol. And has many good uses. From medical benefits to other uses of the cannibis plant.

Let's not even get into hemp. I heard something the other day that hemp oil was more healthy than most other types of oils used in cooking.

Yet in the U.S. we can't use hemp. This is just plain ridiculous.

	17-06-2003 02:05									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Again like i said before... weed will still be lace-able and still double-able... what the young boys on the corner sell will easily fetch a cheaper price than legit companies

It depends on the tax.

A pack of joints could be commercially produced for less than a buck. Even If you tax it $50 dollars a pack, it will still be cheaper and better quality than what the young boys at the corner are selling. (and it won't be laced with pig tranquilizer)

RAH

	17-06-2003 02:10									#68
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how many people buy moonshine now days?

case closed!

	17-06-2003 02:20									#69
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It doesn't even have to be legalized, just decriminalized. Its a huge drain on law enforcement funds, arresting people for having marijuana, time better spent going after the nastier drugs.

Plus, if they were legalized they could have filters, imagine, stoners all over with healthier lungs.

	17-06-2003 02:28									#70
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legalization would be better though, to get it off the streets.

	17-06-2003 02:34									#71
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Sure, make it legal.

That won't make its use any less superflous though, just as the use of alcohol and tobacco is largely superflous.

People should be able to live without these things.

But still, that's a personal issue and not something the government should decide, except in extreme cases.

	17-06-2003 02:55									#72
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Make it legal and controlled (although I don't know about age restriction; I mean, it doesn't work!). Everybody is going to be better off except for the dealers...

	17-06-2003 02:59									#73
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btw never tried it myself but I think I'm going to...

	17-06-2003 03:23									#74
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Albert: No-one is denying that legalisation will increase usage, and that there are health risks associated with the happy leaf.

It is surely a matter of individual choice (see the Mill Limit), a matter of liberty. What about all the great artists, philosophers, musicians, thinkers, writers, etc etc who use weed, and to whom weed is a stimulant for some of their creativity?

quote: why would they not be able to remain in business? Do you even know the little tricks that are done to thicken up blunts and dime bags?

So every dealer does that, or every person who has done weed has been addicted to crack in that way? Not the case, perhaps a tiny minority that most certainly will not affect that fact that the vast majority of dealers reliant on weed would either go out of business, or switch to harder stuff, giving them a higher profile (the problem is the people on the streets, less so the barons, mainly because of numbers).

quote: At least I can take comfort in the fact that almost everyone from apolyton is in rich, marxist cracker-ville

Without wanting to delve into my own history too much, suffice that I am very much NOT from that background. Yet I guarentee at least 50% more libertarianism than any other "imitator" . Besides, where is your evidence for that?

America wont support legalisation for other, somewhat irrational reasons, like "anti-conservatism", the connotations of weed usage ( ) and the belief in some parts of middle America that such an event would be far to "european" for them, especially in the light of recent international events.

quote: what the young boys on the corner sell will easily fetch a cheaper price than legit companies

Growing cannabis is harder than fermenting alcohol (how was I supposed to know that plants need water ), and if one was to get it from other sources, it would soon be far more expensive than legit sources.

Legalising, from societies point of view, would eliminate much of the dealer problem, and make those that remain easier to detect due to the supply and demand of those harder drugs, and provide a valuable source of tax revenue, which could easily cover the potential health costs in national health systems.

Remember, while gram for gram it is worse than tobacco, in termss of how much one smokes, it is far less in quantity and in risk. The people tested in the studies I know of were smoking spliffs where tobacco was mixed with weed, as most people smoke it, not pure blunts, one of which (which is equivalent to a pack of 20 cigarettes or thereabouts), will be sufficient for an entire week in terms of effect!!

You cant have hemp in the USA???

I toast it in a frying pan and eat it for breakfast!!!! Gorgeous with honey.

	17-06-2003 03:25									#75
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Firelad: Shenzi Shanti, Purple Haze or Silver Skunk (not much mind), is a good way to start, but it doesnt matter that much.

Bongs and vapourisers are generally far healthier than spliffs, and to a lesser extent, pipes.

	17-06-2003 03:30									#76
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And I shouldn't need to state again I don't live in a rich neighborhood. While some may consider me rich, I live in a shitty white trash neighborhood (ie mobile homes). I only have money because I'm very good at handling and making money, and I live a fairly frugal lifestyle. But crime is still a problem where I live. Especially burglary. I do worry about my house getting broken into. The house across the street was burglarized.

Not all of us were born rich As Speer suspects. Lack of money and a shitty family life was a major reason for me not going to college (no money to live in a dorm- couldn't stand living at home after I turned 18)

To put it bluntly, my childhood sucked ass.

And yes I have smoked pot on occasion. I did enjoy it. But since then I've held jobs that forbid me from smoking pot, so I don't smoke it.

	17-06-2003 03:39									#77
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One doesnt need to be rich, confortable and priviliged to be libertarian, idealistic, intelligent and not on the far right. Dissident and myself demonstrate that.

	17-06-2003 03:39									#78
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 They use it as a result of peer pressure. Crazy kidz! I'm all for legalization. Marijuana is as much a gateway drug as alcohol is... "If you people want to legalize cannabis, don't complain about the "evil tobacco corporations" Yes, because the marijuana makers have SOOO much in common with big tobacco... Give me a break!

your right, the tobacco corporations are actually a LOT more moral - they put big warning labels on their products, and actually say WHAT'S INSIDE

There is no such thing as "quality control" on illegal drugs.

	17-06-2003 03:42									#79
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I have no problem with tobacco companies, no more so than other corporations their size. They are providing a product and are getting paid for it, as is the case for all businesses.

I do not believe in a nanny state, people should be intelligent enough to decide for themselves whether they want to smoke or not, and if they do, then they can go to the tobacco companies, its not like theyre forcing tobacco into the lungs of all of us (passive smoking is a tough one though, I'm tempted to say in the privacy of ones own home, as it is active, and impacts on everyone else).

	17-06-2003 03:54									#80
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quote: get rid of the supply and there'll be no demand

You've got it backwards... Tackle the demand side, see what happens to the supply. Why do people need to use Marijuana?

Albert don't despair, not everyone is going to be railing against you on this issue.

I don't think we should decriminalise marijuana, especially since the clinical effects do not show a medicinal use for marijuana.

Our government salivates over the tax revenue, so it looks like we will end up with legalisation anyways.

	17-06-2003 03:57									#81
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Taking out the supply is unrealistic. Look at the laws of supply and demand. Where there's a will there's a way.

Cutting out the demand is how you eliminate the supply.

Getting people not to want to smoke marijuana could be quite difficult. But it is possible to get people to want to smoke legal marijuana quite easily. As I mentioned before, no one drinks moonshine no matter how cheap it is. Thus eliminating the street dealers that deal marijuana.

	17-06-2003 03:58									#82
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As obiwan said, drug use should be attacked at the demand side. You know what would be really useful? Make the punishment for use community service.

	17-06-2003 04:00									#83
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No medicinal use? since when?

How do you tackle the demand for marijuana when it isn't addictive? Are you going to stop teenagers and college kids from getting bored?

	17-06-2003 04:05									#84
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The medicinal use is actually quite small and overplayed. From what I've read, it's just a sort of painkiller for certain diseases.

	17-06-2003 04:14									#85
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Its also a very affective appetite stimulant. Very useful for someone like my grandfather undergoing chemo at the moment.

	17-06-2003 04:17									#86
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hmmm, Iīm not sure if itīs an accident or not: during my youth I suffered an evil plant allergy every spring (donīt know the english word for that, we call it Heuschnupfen).
when I started smoking weed I got rid of this problem. someday it completely disappeared.
now - I donīt smoke at all anymore - I notice, the allergy is reappearing, more and more every year. could be an accident but....

	17-06-2003 04:21									#87
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Oedo, man! Yr avatar is FREAKIN me out man! It's like WHOAH! Hypnosisis effect and my eyes are being sucked into his bulging out eyes man! Blink blink blink! Ahahahaha that's so funny! Whoooah.

	17-06-2003 04:29									#88
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thanks. in some rare cases the lines right to the avatar are also worth a look btw.
too bad, thereīs a size limit. I could have used this one else.

Attachment: augenaufreiss.gif
This has been downloaded 39 time(s).

	17-06-2003 04:34									#89
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I like the B&W one better - more sinister looking. The big yellow blotch in the upper left is really emasculating.

	17-06-2003 04:39									#90
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I love the people complaining about "drug use" when talking about marijuana. As if smoking marijuana is worse than getting drunk. Hypocrites!

obiwan: Genesis 1:12 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. "

Genesis 1:29 " And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. "

I expected better from you obiwan.