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Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:28
Thumbs up  Old Post 16-06-2003 15:18
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Fifth straight day of zero new cases in the city. Today is also the day where there are no new cases in the PRC and Taiwan.

Good news indeed.

Mr. President is offline Mr. President
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 16:18 Visit Mr. President's homepage!
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Which city? Singapore? Go Singapore!

Toronto had a new outbreak a couple of weeks ago, as I recall.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 16:36
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Not S'pore, you silly person.

oedo is offline oedo
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 17:20 Visit oedo's homepage!
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interesting. I just read this article:

http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/15012/1.html

quote:

SARS Wars

John Horvath 16.06.2003

Has the US been covering up the number of SARS patients it has?

As Canada continues [1] to struggle in its fight against SARS, with thousands of people still in quarantine, questions are beginning to be raised about
the possibility of the US downplaying the scale of the epidemic in its own country. Conversely, accusations have recently flown about a man who flew
from Toronto to North Carolina allegedly affected with the illness. This has raised fears in Canada that a travel warning will once again be soon
imposed on the city of Toronto.

From the beginning, many had wondered why the severity of SARS in North America was centered mostly in Toronto. This was all the more puzzling since it's
widely acknowledged that the Canadian health care system is far superior to that of the US. While Canadians enjoy the benefits of universal health care, many
Americans are without any form of health insurance whatsoever.

Consequently, this has led many to believe that the number of SARS cases in the US is vastly under-reported. Moreover, many who may be ill are not seeking
treatment since the US system clearly discriminates against the poor and immigrants. Indeed, in the case of the latter, because of their illegal status their main fear is
that if they go to the hospital they would be subsequently deported.

Since Toronto is Canada's main travel hub, it should come as no surprise that within the vast country SARS was centered in that particular city. At the same time,
however, many travellers to Canada merely use the country as a stepping stone to the US. In particular, Toronto is a well-known gateway for Asian migrants to
North America. Once in Toronto, many make their way to New York City by a variety of overland routes. Once in New York they are able to blend more easily
into the cosmopolitan mosaic. From there, organised ethnic networks enable some to move further to other parts of the country, to as far as Los Angeles on the West
Coast.

It's for this reason that some Americans didn't mind when Canada's largest city was put on the travel warning in April, as they were all too aware of the potential
health risk posed by the Toronto to New York migration channel. Still, what has some worried now is that despite the initial measures, some may have gotten
through. Moreover, because of their illegal status and the fear of deportation, ill migrants may have been spreading the disease far wider than what official statistics
claim.

In addition to this, some are also wondering whether the authorities aren't contributing to the deflated figures [2] by not pursuing suspect cases aggressively enough.
During the first outbreak in Canada, even the Canadian government deflated its own figures by using its own standard to determine who was infected with SARS. As
a result, it has been acknowledged that this practice may have contributed to the second epidemic which Canada is now struggling with.

There is also a political aspect to all of this, which further raises some doubts. There is no question that if a SARS epidemic breaks out in the US comparable to what
Toronto has been experiencing, it will be a major blow to the White House. Not only is the US health care system woefully unable to cope with such a disaster, it
would also sharply redirect people's attention to domestic issues, namely health insurance and prescription drugs. Coming just before an election year, this would be a
major setback for George W. Bush.

So far, the Republicans have been able to avoid dealing with domestic issues, and even renegade on some of their promises, by focusing national attention firmly on
the war on terrorism, supposed weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and, more recently, the Middle East peace process. A SARS epidemic would change all this
and shift the focus back to domestic issues, including non-health related problems such as Wall Street corruption.

Prior to September 2001 the Republicans were failing miserably as the Bush administration moved from one crisis to another. Many had lost their faith in American
capitalism, along with their capital. The attacks in New York City and Washington were thus a godsend, for it immediately gave the White House the reprieve it
needed. As a result, the Republicans were able to gain more power a short time later during the mid-term elections in 2002.

But now it looks as though time may be running out. Perhaps the only hope for George W. Bush and his Republicans at this point is another terror attack in the US.

Links

[1] http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N01151875.htm
[2] http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/sars.htm

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
time: 00:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:19
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There are a lot of "may have's" and "could have's" and other such assundry qualifiers in that article. Given that the entire opinion piece is nothing but a huge "what-if" that covers 9-11, the 2002 elections, the SARS epidemic, the supposed loss of "faith in American capitalism*", etc. it is really irrelevant to this issue.

*Huh? Since when?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:23
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quote:
Originally posted by oedo
interesting. I just read this article:
I love wierd conspiracy theories.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
time: 02:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:39 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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No the US did not cover up any cases of SARs it may of had.. that is why there were no deaths.

quote:
But now it looks as though time may be running out. Perhaps the only hope for George W. Bush and his Republicans at this point is another terror attack in the US.




No...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:43 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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We've been covering up our leper colonies, too.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:45
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand


We've been covering up our leper colonies, too.
You mean to say Happy Fun Camps.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:46
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When you think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense that the US did not suffer a similar SARS outbreak to Toronto's, given the proximity and close ties between the two countries.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 19:50
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I seem to have more faith in the incompetence of an organization that bought 500$ toilet seats than you do. Unless of corse you care to tell me how one would go about covering up a Toronto sized outbreak in a major city and not in the boonies of China.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
time: 00:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 20:23
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Didn't you hear? Bush and America are evil... EVIL, I tells ya!!!

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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May 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 20:25 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
Didn't you hear? Bush and America are evil... EVIL, I tells ya!!!


but, but, but, by my system of gross generalization of an entire people based on miniscule sample cases, that makes ME evil! could this be a flaw in my bigoted syst...

oh, right...

carry on.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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Apr 1999
time: 05:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 20:26 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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We cover up our mass slaughters of cattle with Mad Cow disease too.

Nobody here (in the city I live in) has been effected. Not a blip on local radio, local TV, no reports of bed shortages at hospitals. Nada.

-=Vel=-

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 20:59 Visit FrustratedPoet's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Not a blip on local radio, local TV, no reports of bed shortages at hospitals. Nada.


If I don't hear about something then it never happened.

Seriously, though, that argument isn't going to convince any conspiracy theorists. If it had been reported on the news it wouldn't be a conspiracy, would it?

Frankly, I couldn't care less if there were SARS cases in the US.

Velociryx is offline Velociryx
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  Old Post 16-06-2003 21:03 Visit Velociryx's homepage!
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Good point, FP...but given all the publically run radio stations in these parts (including two at the local college), *somebody* would have made mention of the fact that there was a shortage of bed space at the local hospital if there was indeed a shortage.

To double check, I'll stop into the hospital I pass on the way home, but it's doubtful I'll discover anything amiss.

-=Vel=-

Tingkai is offline Tingkai
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Aug 2001
time: 13:28
  Old Post 16-06-2003 23:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
We cover up our mass slaughters of cattle with Mad Cow disease too.

That's not a great example. The US has not detected any mad cow disease because it tests only a very small fraction of cattle.


quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Nobody here (in the city I live in) has been effected. Not a blip on local radio, local TV, no reports of bed shortages at hospitals. Nada.
-=Vel=-

On one hand, thousands of people die of pneumonia every year in every country. IF Americans were dying from SARS it could simply be officially reported as pneumonia.

However, given that SARS tends to hit healthcare workers more than anyone else, American doctors and nurses would have no reason to cover up a disease that will infect them before anyone else.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 17-06-2003 09:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
However, given that SARS tends to hit healthcare workers more than anyone else, American doctors and nurses would have no reason to cover up a disease that will infect them before anyone else.


While that's true, it's not easy to distinguish SARS from pneumonia unless you run one of the tests on the patient.

mindseye is offline mindseye
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 17-06-2003 19:05
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quote:
When you think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense that the US did not suffer a similar SARS outbreak to Toronto's, given the proximity and close ties between the two countries.


Is it really that non-sensical?

Consider: Beijing had thousands of SARS cases, Shanghai had about six! There must be at least as much traffic between Shanghai - Beijing/Guangzhou/Hong Kong as Toronto - New York.

Mr. President is offline Mr. President
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
When you think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense that the US did not suffer a similar SARS outbreak to Toronto's, given the proximity and close ties between the two countries.


It is puzzling, but there are certain intangible factors that might be involved: population habits, population density, inherent population susceptibility.

Malaysia was also affected much less than Singapore, and Japan much less than China.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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  Old Post 18-06-2003 07:48 Visit Tuberski's homepage!
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What about the rest of Canada? Why only Toronto?

ACK!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-06-2003 08:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
What about the rest of Canada? Why only Toronto?


B.C. got a few cases, but no local chain.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
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I heard about one case here in Texas, a man that went to Toronto in May.

ACK!

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 18-06-2003 10:24
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quote:
From the beginning, many had wondered why the severity of SARS in North America was centered mostly in Toronto. This was all the more puzzling since it's widely acknowledged that the Canadian health care system is far superior to that of the US. While Canadians enjoy the benefits of universal health care, many Americans are without any form of health insurance whatsoever.


The Canadian system is, in fact, substandard to the American counterpart. The difference is that all Canadians are entitled to the same level of mediocre care, while poorer Americans cannot access the best their system has to offer. That is why better-off Canadians often go to the US for better, faster care. It is even rumoured that those close to our senior politicians have done the US health care shuffle when wanting something looked after well and quickly.

quote:
Originally posted by Tuberski
What about the rest of Canada? Why only Toronto?


Indeed. No other population centre in Canada has had anything close to an epidemic. About the same as isolated occurances in many places around the world. Oh, and Toronto is a far bigger hub for travel within Canada than outside it.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 18-06-2003 12:08
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June 23.

Mr. President is offline Mr. President
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  Old Post 18-06-2003 12:17 Visit Mr. President's homepage!
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I beg your pardon?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 19-06-2003 21:54
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That's the expected day when we will be removed from the "Infected Area" list.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 23-06-2003 13:32
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Yes, yes! We are removed from the "Infected Area" list!







Mr. President is offline Mr. President
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  Old Post 23-06-2003 13:47 Visit Mr. President's homepage!
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Rock on, Hong Kong!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 24-06-2003 19:29
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Today, travel warning against Beijing was lifted, together with removal from the "Infected Area" list.



Finally, looks like SARS is over... for now.

 
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