17-06-2003 04:55									#1
	Air Defence Question Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I need some help again.. This time I'm a bit confused as to how the air defence works. When I attack an enemy unit using a needlejet, sometimes enemy interceptors scramble to protect the unit. Now I have 2 questions:

1) How do I set my own interceptors to scramble incoming air attacks? I've tried some different orders, but they do not work properly. Placing an interceptor on alert (Shift+L) in a base makes the interceptor fly around for apparantly no reason. This is a waste since my defence might be out on ... ehh ... duty/(sightseeing?!?), when I need it. I'd really like my crawlers to be better protected from air assaults. Any ideas how I might accomplish this?

2) The air superiority give a +100% bonus in air-to-air combat. Sometimes this is true, but when suddenly an enemy interceptor scrambles to protect a unit, the interceptor does not recieve the +100% bonus. Am I reading the numbers wrong ... or what is going on? I know that two interceptors ignore this bonus if they engage each other --- this actually makes sense. Hmm, the manual (SMAC) does not reveal anything.

	17-06-2003 07:24									#2
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To have your interceptors intercept, do nothing. They will automatically intercept enemy airstrikes on your units (not pactmates') within two squares of their base. Be warned, the game will not hold back a 95% damaged aircraft...it will intercept despite having no chnce to survive. For severly damaged interceptors, withdraw them from the front completely to repair. Another thing, if interception occurs on an attack on a non combat unit and the interceptor loses, the non combat unit is also destroyed.

I'm not sure when the air to air bonus actually is applied. I am fairly certain it is applied when an interceptor attacks a non-interceptor in flight. (hardly needed then as the non-intercptor defends in such cases with its armor) I think the interceptor does not get the bonus when intercepting. Might be a bug. A MAJOR consequence of that is that interceptors are virtually useless in defending against nerve gas air attacks, given anything approaching weapons tech parity between the two airccraft. The interceptor receives neither the bonus for defending a base, nor the 100% bonus for an aerocomplex. A much stronger defense is an armored infantry defender with AAA and a base with an aero and a sensor in range, even if the armor value is less than a third of the attacker's weapon. Consider - Shard X noodle attacking a base with gas...strength 20 1/2 before morale effect. Shard interceptor defends with strength of 13. Silksteel AAA defender with an aero and a sensor defends at 25. (again, before morale effect)

	18-06-2003 19:57									#3
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this made me wonder: will a chopper 'interceptor' (rotor or whatever) attack more than one incoming craft automatically, ie once in the air and having won one battle, will it move to another position in the air and attack again?

	18-06-2003 20:21									#4
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nope 1 attack blocked per interceptor.

	18-06-2003 21:06									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose To have your interceptors intercept, do nothing.

Does this mean hit the space bar with them, put them on HOLD (H), or just hit end turn without using thier movement? Thanks!

	18-06-2003 21:34									#6
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I don't know if they'll intercept if ordered to hold. Just space bar them. They need have no remaining movement points to intercept in the enemy's turn.

	19-06-2003 01:46									#7
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Yes, it works! Thanks mongoose

I hit the space bar and my interceptors fly out to protect nearby crawlers, formers etc.

Though, they are not too effective since the +100% bonus does not apply during a scramble The Usurper's missile penetrators are tough with the alien +25% offence ... ooops! Ha, but they seem to think twice before attacking my non-combat units. Really!

I tend to use Rover SAM units to counter aerial assaults --- that is: to shoot the fliers down during the following turn. But I've never seen the AI use this tactic against me. Hence I put a Mobile SAM unit in the preset list (speeder 4-1-2SAM, available upon Doctrine: Airpower). I'm still waiting to test if the AI will use these little pesks against my airborne fleet.

And, sheridangreen: You beat me with that question If it works with the hold command (H) let me know!

	19-06-2003 11:13									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Mongoose I don't know if they'll intercept if ordered to hold. Just space bar them. They need have no remaining movement points to intercept in the enemy's turn.

It does work, and now you don't have to deal with this unit every turn.

	19-06-2003 18:38									#9
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if im playing a long drawn out game (basically because im messing around with the AI) then if an area isnt covered by a base ill normally stick an airbase down and hold a few interceptors in there aswell. Gives me a complete circle of defense.

	19-06-2003 20:52									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander It does work, and now you don't have to deal with this unit every turn.

Good! A dozen interceptors scattered around the empire would be a pain to have to space bar every turn. Of course, this begs the question, how do you stop your interceptor from scrambling if you would prefer to counterattack with it the next turn? Just use SAM rovers?

(I would think it would be more effective to counterattack since you would receive +100% for SAM, plus you would attack the penetrators armor, correct?)

	19-06-2003 21:38									#11
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quote: Originally posted by sheridangreen (I would think it would be more effective to counterattack since you would receive +100% for SAM, plus you would attack the penetrators armor, correct?)

Thats why a cheap SAM rover or a helicopter interceptor work great on the counterattack. Most airplanes are unarmoured so they come tumbling down.
A smart player could try stacking a high weapon interceptor with his penetrator to foil your interceptors but the vulnerability to Sam rovers is still there.

The only ways to try to protect your planes from SAM rovers is

1. armour the planes but this is usually a losing proposition given that weapons are usually much better than armour absent a defensive bonus

2. Drop a ground unit ( perhaps best armour ECM) into the stack and attack from good defensive terrain so they get the benefit of some defensive bonuses. This stack is harder to beat

3. Attack in overwhelming force such that most of the rovers are destroyed. This is the preferred option if you can manage it . . Attack with such numbers and in such force that you kill most everything that might be able to hit back.

IMHO people should accept that units outside their bases will die. Absent a technology edge, weapons are always better than available armour and while you can design a unit to counter one type of attack, there is always a vulnerability.


Never forget what artillery can do-- its not great against bases but it can really hurt those units in the field. I usually try to have a couple of SAM artillery around for worm defense anyway and they really knock the stuffing out of planes as well

	20-06-2003 07:26									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber 3. Attack in overwhelming force such that most of the rovers are destroyed. This is the preferred option if you can manage it . . Attack with such numbers and in such force that you kill most everything that might be able to hit back. IMHO people should accept that units outside their bases will die. Absent a technology edge, weapons are always better than available armour and while you can design a unit to counter one type of attack, there is always a vulnerability.

Of course in doing so you may leave yourself open to a few welltimed self destruct units wiping out your rather siazbel air force, especially if they are rather tightly grouped.

The second point is right on the money hence the reason air power is normally thought of as disposable. Suicide choppers and el cheapo 4-1-10's noodles are the logical extension of this doctrine.

	20-06-2003 08:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Of course in doing so you may leave yourself open to a few welltimed self destruct units wiping out your rather siazbel air force, especially if they are rather tightly grouped. The second point is right on the money hence the reason air power is normally thought of as disposable. Suicide choppers and el cheapo 4-1-10's noodles are the logical extension of this doctrine.

Your second paragraph is the reason why I don't fear the self-destruct mentioned in your first paragraph. Almost every chopper/plane I send out is expendable, the point is to do more damage to my opponent than they do to me. I almost never stack more than three units together and I try to space out any hanging air units as the self-destruct trick is so powerful.

The whole idea of an overwhelming attack is to be just that, overwhelming. If you have picked your spot well, a bunch of choppers may be able to hop into a captured base and be safer from counterattack. But there will be a whole bunch more that aren't expected to survive . . Often I am suprised to see one or two of my widely spaced marauders behind enemy lines survive the first counterattack.

	20-06-2003 08:43									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Your second paragraph is the reason why I don't fear the self-destruct mentioned in your first paragraph. Almost every chopper/plane I send out is expendable, the point is to do more damage to my opponent than they do to me. I almost never stack more than three units together and I try to space out any hanging air units as the self-destruct trick is so powerful.

Yeppers and thats why air power is the key. Maximize your damage and if you lose a few units, so what, at least your economic and industrial machinery isn't affected whilst your opponents has been.

The party on the offensive rules and makes the rules while the defender is playing the ole slow death spiral game. (not even that slow considering a massive Nerve gas assault)