01-07-2003 12:12									#31
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Maybe its the Germans who invented the fresbee from alien technology!

...at least something useful to come out of alien technology...

	01-07-2003 12:26									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Kahn The truth is both much more mundane, and far more interesting than you could ever guess in most circumstances.

America Government commitee prejury about Iraq WHERE ARE THE WMD. Than simple answer is THERE WHERE NONE.

	02-07-2003 03:19									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Do drug dealers wait to be caught with the goods? Why should the leader of a country who's being invaded give any validation to his aggressors?

	02-07-2003 03:56									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Kahn Do drug dealers wait to be caught with the goods? Why should the leader of a country who's being invaded give any validation to his aggressors?

Factory that make nuclear material are huge compexs which you cannot hide in your back potck. America Intelligence screw up again right it alway does.

	02-07-2003 10:16									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I believe all governments lie to some extent. Ours usually has a good reason whenever it does. Keep in mind that the truth (and lies) are pretty subjective. From my past experience, 99% of secrets are quite mundane (Thats a secret?!?) and the other 1% no one would believe if they found out (No way! Must be a cover-up!). The real world is nothing like the x-files. Alot of the truth that is out there is none of our business.

Ooops. Just realized we are getting way off topic.

	02-07-2003 13:56									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 I believe all governments lie to some extent. Ours usually has a good reason whenever it does. Keep in mind that the truth (and lies) are pretty subjective. From my past experience, 99% of secrets are quite mundane (Thats a secret?!?) and the other 1% no one would believe if they found out (No way! Must be a cover-up!). The real world is nothing like the x-files. Alot of the truth that is out there is none of our business. Ooops. Just realized we are getting way off topic.

I don't know how old you are, but I live through the Vietman era I wasnot in the military I remember the lia are government told about Vietman and the protect against the war. I have than Uncled of mine who server in the Koran war of 1950'1953, and sent one tour in Veitman was there when the Teth Offince of the Viet Cong took place and he told me the Government is lieing about the Viet Cong loseing
the war at that time and history prove him right.

Iraq is turning into than other Vietman and we will be force out by the Iraq freedom fighter.

	03-07-2003 05:35									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff I don't know how old you are, but I live through the Vietman era I wasnot in the military I remember the lia are government told about Vietman and the protect against the war. I have than Uncled of mine who server in the Koran war of 1950'1953, and sent one tour in Veitman was there when the Teth Offince of the Viet Cong took place and he told me the Government is lieing about the Viet Cong loseing the war at that time and history prove him right.

I was in school during Vietnam and volunteered for 20 years of service not long after it was over. There weren't lies so much as there were many different people, even in the government, telling their own version of the truth to support their own viewpoint. There's still a little bit of that going on today but not as much.

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff Iraq is turning into than other Vietman and we will be force out by the Iraq freedom fighter.

Funny, I thought we were the one's fighting for freedom in Iraq. The so called "Iraqi freedom fighter" are anarchists either supporting the old order or other special interest groups (like some Shi'ites) seeking to take advantage of the Iraqi people before freedom can take hold.

	03-07-2003 12:14									#38
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 I was in school during Vietnam and volunteered for 20 years of service not long after it was over. There weren't lies so much as there were many different people, even in the government, telling their own version of the truth to support their own viewpoint. There's still a little bit of that going on today but not as much. Funny, I thought we were the one's fighting for freedom in Iraq. The so called "Iraqi freedom fighter" are anarchists either supporting the old order or other special interest groups (like some Shi'ites) seeking to take advantage of the Iraqi people before freedom can take hold.

There can be freedom fighter for dictorate , the term freedom fighter actical mean than person who fight against than occupation of their land by foreign. Not all Veit Com where communist , but they saw America as than occupation force illegality occupation they land.

	03-07-2003 14:52									#39
	Suffering from ads?

Can we take this to off topic or PM now that its drifted so far from discussing MoO3 building infrastructure?

	04-07-2003 01:08									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff There can be freedom fighter for dictorate , the term freedom fighter actical mean than person who fight against than occupation of their land by foreign. Not all Veit Com where communist , but they saw America as than occupation force illegality occupation they land.

Right... A freedom fighter for dictatorships. Now there's an oxymoron. Lets not confuse freedom fighting with nationalism and patriotism. Next you'll be saying that North Korea really is a Democratic People's Republic.
I do agree with Grumbold, we have gotten way off base. Lets end this now or take it elsewhere.

In an attempt to return to the subject, in my current game I've noticed that it has been harder to keep my head above the water in food production and mining. Anyone else seen that?

	04-07-2003 06:12									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 In an attempt to return to the subject, in my current game I've noticed that it has been harder to keep my head above the water in food production and mining. Anyone else seen that?

I'll assume that you're not playing an Icthytosian race, if keeping your head above water is important.

I don't know that it's tougher, post-patch...but there are several low-level techs that really hurt when they show up late on your tree (or worse yet, don't show up at all ). There's been some lively discussion on the OS forum about which ones should be changed to "KEEPTHIS" status (a text flag attached to some techs, like ship sizes, so that they always appear for every player) in order to prevent early-game problems.

I know I've had games where I had to dig in and micromanage the heck out of DEA placement from about turn 50-100 in order to keep food, minerals, or in rare cases both above the demand level. I tend to find such things annoying, and I very strongly suspect that most (if not all) of the AI empires run into the same problem at about that point in every game, causing at least a major slowdown in expansion (and more often, even some contraction), though I can't dismiss all the AI fighting I also see during the same period as a possible cause. Basically, since if I leave MY AI governors to their own devices, I'll see food or mineral shortages quite often, I'd be willing to bet that's what's happening to the AI players. If this glitch could be fixed, it would not only make the game better for human players but make the AI even more competitive. The "KEEPTHIS" flag will help, but it won't fix everything.

I also know that the DEA placement AI is a real bear, though, so I'm not anticipating any quick fixes in that regard.

	04-07-2003 18:32									#42
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Th DEA placement AI can't win really, because your priorities change all the time. Initially you seem to need about 2:1 Mining:Industry and 2:1 or even 3:1 Farm:Planet to survive. If you're lucky enough to get the early improvement techs this rapidly shifts down to 1:1 and then 1:2. By the end game 2 mines and 1 farm per world is more than enough to net me a sizable surplus. The AI never seems to adapt to changing circumstances by recycling now unneeded DEA's in favour of better choices.

The AI also seems to start off with an industry DEA on every world. This is a good idea in general but it doesn't seem to actually plan the best place for the DEA as the spot least likely to be needed for efficient mining or farming. Often it gets slapped down on the only fertile region or the only decent mountain. Doh!

One of my favourite strategies is to go for 100% research straight to physical science 6 or so for the first mine improvement, then switch to the farming improvement then nuclear engines before spreading my research out more evenly.

	05-07-2003 04:27									#43
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I start off with two sciences at 10 % each and 4 at 20 % each. I make than mod which show down all star travel by 10
and another one which show it down by 100 times.

	05-07-2003 09:37									#44
	Got spare money?

Stormhound - I have been letting the AI do the DEAs for me. I am beginning to think that the answer to my problem is to (regretfully) micromanage DEA production, at least early in the game.

CharlesBHoff - Am I understanding you correctly? You modded star travel so that movement is slowed by a factor of 10 and then 100? How does that change the game for you (other than making movement slower).

	05-07-2003 19:36									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's what I do when it appears necessary (my surpluses are getting too low, or I get deficits). I don't have to do an awfully lot of it, just kind of keep an eye on the numbers and plant a few DEAs as needed.

	06-07-2003 04:04									#46
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I tend to manually set all DEA's on my first 15 or so planets, then any large enough to care about later on. Once I have surpluses I can turn on auto colonisation and let the AI build what it likes where it likes.

	06-07-2003 05:54									#47
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

On every planet I colonize (in addition to the automatic industrial DEA) I start 1 Gov, 1 Mil, and 1 Rec DEA as soon as I take it. Am I hurting myself by neglecting resource DEAs that early? After those beginning DEAs I usually let the planets manage themselves unless I want alot of research DEAs somewhere.

	06-07-2003 07:30									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Stormhound - I have been letting the AI do the DEAs for me. I am beginning to think that the answer to my problem is to (regretfully) micromanage DEA production, at least early in the game. CharlesBHoff - Am I understanding you correctly? You modded star travel so that movement is slowed by a factor of 10 and then 100? How does that change the game for you (other than making movement slower).

It change the entire stragetic picture from standard game. You are force to delevolp your home system more even the bad planets can be use for reasearch labs. It move like the world of the ancient and medival . First when the ancient world set up than colony the colony have more local automonly as the speed of commicate was slowly and it was hard to impose your will unless you sent than big military units with your messager. It we where to be force to settle other stars with near light speed ship or stl ships all colonies will have to be run by the local people with local rulers as you cannot micro-mang from Earth when your meassage traveling at the speed of light can take many years to reach the nearest star.

I can mod the starlane file to make offroad travel slower by
than factor or 10 or than 100 I donot want to go any slower as I might hit something in the hardcode which mightnot like too much changes in the tables.

	06-07-2003 09:47									#49
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff It change the entire stragetic picture from standard game. You are force to delevolp your home system more even the bad planets can be use for reasearch labs. It move like the world of the ancient and medival . First when the ancient world set up than colony the colony have more local automonly as the speed of commicate was slowly and it was hard to impose your will unless you sent than big military units with your messager. It we where to be force to settle other stars with near light speed ship or stl ships all colonies will have to be run by the local people with local rulers as you cannot micro-mang from Earth when your meassage traveling at the speed of light can take many years to reach the nearest star. I can mod the starlane file to make offroad travel slower by than factor or 10 or than 100 I donot want to go any slower as I might hit something in the hardcode which mightnot like too much changes in the tables.

That makes sense in a way but I bet the games are very long. Those mobilization centers would become extremely important as well. I wouldn't mind trying that. How do you do the mod? I'd probably try a factor of 10 first (making that first neighboring star that was 4 turns away into a 40 turn trip seems long enough but a 400 turn trip sounds a bit too long!). I imagine you slow the tech down also?

	07-07-2003 18:24									#50
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 On every planet I colonize (in addition to the automatic industrial DEA) I start 1 Gov, 1 Mil, and 1 Rec DEA as soon as I take it. Am I hurting myself by neglecting resource DEAs that early? After those beginning DEAs I usually let the planets manage themselves unless I want alot of research DEAs somewhere.

No, because I believe the AI does not feel obliged to build those first since it draws objectives from default settings overruled by your dev plans and choice of natural or specialised planets. So you're telling it where to place those items and reserving the sites but unless your dev plans agree, not telling it to build them immediately. If you wanted to go further you could reserve the best spots for farming and mining DEA's just to make sure the AI doesn't bung a factory or lab on it.