17-06-2003 08:29									#1
	Building infrastructure? Tired of ads?

Just got the game, and I'm trying REALLY hard to understand and like it. I'm letting the AI make most of the decisions for now, until I really figure out what all those settings do. But I can't seem to figure out how to build planetary structures like the "hydroponic farms." They don't show up on the planetary build queue. I noticed that when a planetary AI is on, they seem to show up on their own in multiple regions (not always where I want them built. But I want to build them manually. So what gives?

	17-06-2003 09:56									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Some items the game just will not let you touch. Regional improvements are one.

	17-06-2003 10:40									#3
	WHAT? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Now that's just plain stupid! I really prefer to micromanage every aspect of a game like this, and that pisses me off. So, basically, if I turn off the planet AI, I can't build regional infrastructure? How can that possibly be intentional?!

Who thought that was a good idea?!

	17-06-2003 11:35									#4
	Support Apolyton

we're waaay past that nowadays....
I guess everyone got used to it. Live with it. Best is to presume the AI does a way better job than you could....
really, it is so....

	17-06-2003 15:37									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

See it this way:
The AI takes over some of the rahter unimportant jobs so that you have your head free to get the really important jobs done well

	17-06-2003 15:40									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

A custom mod exists to force all the improvements into the visible building class but I have never used it.

	17-06-2003 17:12									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

If you like Micromanagement you should get MoO2... It is in that and many other regards a much better game for most people. (Yes yes I know, fans are the majority in their own minds, but most certainly not from what I see online and know from my friends...)

You should have read the reviews at Amazon.com before buying this ... thing... Even the good reviews tell you that there is no micromanagement...

Of course I made the same mistake (just there were no useful reviews because I stupidly bought it on day 1)...

I learned from my mistake though. No more games purchased unless I played them before....

Lata
Krait

	17-06-2003 21:08									#8
	Suffering from ads?

I Bought MoO2 in 1997 and played it constantly for four years. One of the greatest games ever made, but it no longer holds any challenge for me.

I knew about the reviews, but they also said that the AI could be turned off...

Sigh.

I'm going to hold off on judgement for a while longer.

	17-06-2003 22:07									#9
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Now, if you get used to the fact,
that some things can´t be controlled by the player (at least in an unmodded game) you´ll probably find out, that it´s a really good game (after the patch) despite being no MOO 2.5

I was also one of those who micromanaged every part in MOO 2, but I´ve learned to trust the AI (which btw. does a much better job than the AI in MOO 2) in MOO 3 and aside from a few worlds where I exert greater Influence I trust the AI to run large parts of my Empire (as I always play on huge Maps, so I normally have really big Empires, so Micromanagement would mean, that in later turns of the game I had to spend more than 1 hour just to manage the economy of all my worlds ).
So the most important jobs I do is managing Shipsbuilding on my larger Industrial worlds, assigning DEAs to new colonized Planets (I always assign all DEAs after Colonization by hand), Creating new Ship Designs and of course Creating Fleets and the like and sending Them From System A to System B

	17-06-2003 22:43									#10
	Re: WHAT? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by clocknova Now that's just plain stupid! I really prefer to micromanage every aspect of a game like this, and that pisses me off. So, basically, if I turn off the planet AI, I can't build regional infrastructure? How can that possibly be intentional?! Who thought that was a good idea?!

Some items in the game will be built in every region that has the population to support them, like Hydroponic farms and Space ports. These items don't seem to cost much upkeep and only require a one time build for each region. These items also essentially produce the same regardless of where they are, so why would you want to manually add them to each and every region of each and every planet you own when the AI can do it for you and then turn off the spending when done?

This would be like installing the OS on your PC by copying every single file yourself instead of having the OS copy the files automatically.

By the way, would you want to hand manage 60+ planets every turn? You can but you'll spend more time tinkering and tweaking than playing the game. Heh, one Huge map game played this way would take you literally years to complete if you got 100+ planets.

	18-06-2003 07:55									#11
	Re: WHAT? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by clocknova Now that's just plain stupid! I really prefer to micromanage every aspect of a game like this, and that pisses me off. So, basically, if I turn off the planet AI, I can't build regional infrastructure? How can that possibly be intentional?! Who thought that was a good idea?!

I'm probably the last person on earth that would stick up for QS's job on MoO3, but this is to some extent realistic. The president doesn't tell each state in the union what they can and cannot spend their budgets on.

If QS wanted to get real nit-picky they could have introduced a more realistic economic model into the game taking into account commodity supply & demand, inflation, deflation, etc. which would really take the player out-of-the-loop as far as being the soul influence over his/her domain. But let's face it, the most realistic models don't make for very interesting games.

	18-06-2003 08:38									#12
	Re: WHAT? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by clocknova So, basically, if I turn off the planet AI, I can't build regional infrastructure?

I think the AI still fills the "normal economic development" queue (DEAs and regional improvements, the stuff you can't queue up yourself, though you can tell it what DEAs to build and where) even if the "economic AI" for the planet is off. Or am I wrong?

quote: Who thought that was a good idea?!

I'm reasonably sure the responsible party has already received the appropriate punishment

	18-06-2003 11:31									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okay. All very good points. And, to be honest, I'm getting used to the idea that this game cannot be played like its predecessor. I've been reading up on dev plans, and putting them to good use, so I don't feel like I'm powerless to control development. I think I've finally gotten over the hump that so many of MOO3's detractors don't play long enough to get to, and I'm having some real fun.

However, two of the more annoying issues I've run into are: the build queues should be seperated from the economic AI, so I can control what is built while the viceroy decides how to spend; the colors assigned to various races are too similar- I've got four shades of red in one game, each only slightly different from the next.

But I'm sure you all know that by now.

	20-06-2003 01:26									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Separating the queues from the AI -- if you get the patch, you can lock the MBQ, which will probably accomplish most of what you want to accomplish there.

	20-06-2003 07:17									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by clocknova Okay. All very good points. And, to be honest, I'm getting used to the idea that this game cannot be played like its predecessor. I've been reading up on dev plans, and putting them to good use, so I don't feel like I'm powerless to control development. I think I've finally gotten over the hump that so many of MOO3's detractors don't play long enough to get to, and I'm having some real fun. However, two of the more annoying issues I've run into are: the build queues should be seperated from the economic AI, so I can control what is built while the viceroy decides how to spend; the colors assigned to various races are too similar- I've got four shades of red in one game, each only slightly different from the next. But I'm sure you all know that by now.

In real life the leader cannot micromang everything in his Empire. Let say I am the Emporous of than 25,000,000 planet empire it would be impossible for me to manger the action of the breat cops on very planets that why I have the Department of Police mang that for me.

	20-06-2003 23:55									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Not to put anyone down or on the spot, but, Moo3 isn't real life. It's just a game. Thats been one of my big pet peeves. Everyone keeps saying how allowing the AI of Moo3 to do everything is all realistic and stuff. But in reality, SOMEONE has to do that stuff, and I'd wrather have it be me...

I mean, even The Sims, which is supposta be a simulation of real life has micromanagement. Because Micromanagement = something to do.

Micromanagement is like the 'meat' of a game. If there is none... what are you actually 'doing'?

	21-06-2003 00:28									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yes and even you take into account that you can´t control everything you still have a lot of Micromanagement in the game (at least if you want to and don´t let the Computer control even those parts).

	21-06-2003 01:41									#18
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by To_Serve_Man Not to put anyone down or on the spot, but, Moo3 isn't real life. It's just a game. Thats been one of my big pet peeves. Everyone keeps saying how allowing the AI of Moo3 to do everything is all realistic and stuff. But in reality, SOMEONE has to do that stuff, and I'd wrather have it be me... I mean, even The Sims, which is supposta be a simulation of real life has micromanagement. Because Micromanagement = something to do. Micromanagement is like the 'meat' of a game. If there is none... what are you actually 'doing'?

May-be they could make than MOO4 have all the star in our galaxy where you the chosic at beginning of the game of the
AL running part of your future empire or you micro-minagement verything with no AL help at all. That would be than interesting game to end all games.

	22-06-2003 08:40									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff May-be they could make than MOO4 have all the star in our galaxy where you the chosic at beginning of the game of the AL running part of your future empire or you micro-minagement verything with no AL help at all. That would be than interesting game to end all games.

Believe it or not I'd actually like to see that. It probably would take forever to do the map though...

	22-06-2003 15:02									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Believe it or not I'd actually like to see that. It probably would take forever to do the map though...

With the way computer are getting better it might happen sooner than you think.

	25-06-2003 10:12									#21
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

That would be so cool. The processor would have to be really awesome for the AI to manage the millions of stars for you.

	26-06-2003 02:47									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 That would be so cool. The processor would have to be really awesome for the AI to manage the millions of stars for you.

It you where to go back when the first personal computer came out and tell the people that in the year 2003 we would have personal computer with 4 gigahert speed and 4
gigabytes of memony they would have thought you where cazy or hight on something.

	26-06-2003 09:41									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff It you where to go back when the first personal computer came out and tell the people that in the year 2003 we would have personal computer with 4 gigahert speed and 4 gigabytes of memony they would have thought you where cazy or hight on something.

Yes. I always wondered if Moore's Law was being upheld with the assistance of secret alien technology. Considering how slow we are in advancing in other fields the speed in which we are advancing in computer technology seems ridiculously suspect.
Hope that didn't sound too strange.

	27-06-2003 03:03									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Yes. I always wondered if Moore's Law was being upheld with the assistance of secret alien technology. Considering how slow we are in advancing in other fields the speed in which we are advancing in computer technology seems ridiculously suspect. Hope that didn't sound too strange.

That why the government is slowly say that allien spacecraft
crash land in Germany 1934 the Germany Scienist and Engineer where busy working to uncover it secret. Than other crash land in NM in 1947, than other was shot down in the USSR and China invade Tibet to get at than crash UFO there.

	29-06-2003 09:55									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I was wondering where the Germans got their inspiration for the UFO-shaped plane designs we found after WWII. I've seen our prototype from those plans (a saucer shaped USAF jet from the late 40's - early 50's).

	30-06-2003 02:49									#26
	Got spare money?

Orderly! White jackets all around if you please!

	30-06-2003 14:04									#27
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Kahn Orderly! White jackets all around if you please!

Are you native to believe that the America Government alway tell the truth. Well I am not one of them.

	30-06-2003 15:11									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I was wondering where the Germans got their inspiration for the UFO-shaped plane designs

They were playing a lot of fresbee at that time....

	30-06-2003 15:52									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Daz They were playing a lot of fresbee at that time....

There where no fresbee at that time. The Germany where also trying to get the UFO beam weapon working so they can mount then in the UFO they where builting plus mount then on their own airplanes also.

	01-07-2003 08:52									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by CharlesBHoff Are you native to believe that the America Government alway tell the truth. Well I am not one of them.

The truth is both much more mundane, and far more interesting than you could ever guess in most circumstances.