17-06-2003 11:31									#1
	The grand nation of dissidents is being overrun by dissidents Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I lost my password and cleared my cookies and can't be bothered to ask for a new password. I think my time is finally up as a leader of dissidents. So long Apolyton region

	18-06-2003 12:24									#2
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I feel the nation may fall into the hands of another nation. And there are several prospects...

	18-06-2003 12:48									#3
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And it seems that, for the time being, that Dissidents will become a Protectorate of Alecrast, until the nation is no longer overrun with Dissidents and order can be restored.

	19-06-2003 10:46									#4
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Sheepsta proclaims this latest move as another act of Alecrastian expansionism and an attempt to tip the balance of power in the Apolyton region.

Field Marshall Dunning has called for a international task force to be sent to Dissidents to keep law and order in the nation and to restore responsible government as soon as possible.

	19-06-2003 11:59									#5
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[OOC]

If you'd bother to read any of the other threads Sheep, you'd see that he *gave* me the nation. As for my comment "until the nation is no longer overrun with Dissidents and order can be restored.", surely you saw that was a flippant remark, not an actual RP.[/OOC]

The Dissidents government itself had formally petitioned the Alecrast government for Protectorate Status, disbanding its military upon acceptance. This is not "expansionism". Dissidents is still self ruling, it simply is under the protection of Alecrast.

	19-06-2003 12:52									#6
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The Sheepsta will like to offer its assistance in protecting Dissidents. However we urge Alecrast in returning Dissidents to self rule as quickly as possible.

	19-06-2003 12:55									#7
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Dakmoristan has officially recognized Alecrast's Protectorate in the land of Dissidents.

	19-06-2003 13:36									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep The Sheepsta will like to offer its assistance in protecting Dissidents. However we urge Alecrast in returning Dissidents to self rule as quickly as possible.

[OOC]Dissidents has never not been self ruling, as you'd see if you even paid attention to the above post.[/OOC]

[Dissidents]
Our nation would like nothing more than to have nothing whatsoever to do with the Sheepstan Military Junta, a nation which wouldn't even allow a Dissident to its rule to exist if it had the choice.
[/Dissidents]

	19-06-2003 13:41									#9
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Try and keep some semblence of chracter Archaic

	19-06-2003 13:45									#10
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And how am I not? Besides the fact that it's quite in character for that nation to not want any part of a military government, don't you know the meaning of the word "Dissident" or "Dissent"? The guy's making an attempt at a play on words, and it would seem it went right over your head.

	19-06-2003 13:48									#11
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Ahhh right keep beleving I am an idiot, It will only surprise you more when you are proven wrong.

I do get it, however the NAME of the nation doesn't matter. Do you think all Sheepstans like Sheep? As for a military government not necessarily. Field Marshall has proved to formulate quite a cult in Sheepsta. National Socialism does really work.

	19-06-2003 13:57									#12
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National Socialism? You're admitting your military junta is composed of Nazi's? Now how foolish can you get?

	19-06-2003 13:59									#13
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What you going to do about it. Fascism is not inherently evil. It was made so by those who excersied it.

	19-06-2003 14:06									#14
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Such as yourself. Or don't you consider government sponsored racism evil?

	19-06-2003 14:07									#15
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Not at all. I am not evil. Now Hitler was evil. He went out of his way to cause war, suffering and death. Where as I am not. In fact you are the one trying to start war not me.

See the diffrence, wont be surprised if you don;t

	19-06-2003 14:21									#16
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.....I don't believe it, you actually denied that government sponsored racism is evil. Now you show your true colours to everyone. I suppose with how you've acted, it should come as no surprise.

Oh, and BTW, your actions provoked me, as you knew they would. That in itself constitutes you trying to start a war. Specifically, a war that will benifit you, because you wanted me to attack you and then get attacked myself for having "no justification" for my attacks. You've only backed down now since you've noticed that I'm not backing down just because Akira is telling me to, and that I have support beyond just my traditional allies.



http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html

Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth after a period of decline or destruction. To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide. At the same time, fascists may embrace a form of internationalism based on either racial or ideological solidarity across national boundaries. Usually fascism espouses open male supremacy, though sometimes it may also promote female solidarity and new opportunities for women of the privileged nation or race.

Fascism's approach to politics is both populist--in that it seeks to activate "the people" as a whole against perceived oppressors or enemies--and elitist--in that it treats the people's will as embodied in a select group, or often one supreme leader, from whom authority proceeds downward. Fascism seeks to organize a cadre-led mass movement in a drive to seize state power. It seeks to forcibly subordinate all spheres of society to its ideological vision of organic community, usually through a totalitarian state. Both as a movement and a regime, fascism uses mass organizations as a system of integration and control, and uses organized violence to suppress opposition, although the scale of violence varies widely.

Fascism is hostile to Marxism, liberalism, and conservatism, yet it borrows concepts and practices from all three. Fascism rejects the principles of class struggle and workers' internationalism as threats to national or racial unity, yet it often exploits real grievances against capitalists and landowners through ethnic scapegoating or radical-sounding conspiracy theories. Fascism rejects the liberal doctrines of individual autonomy and rights, political pluralism, and representative government, yet it advocates broad popular participation in politics and may use parliamentary channels in its drive to power. Its vision of a "new order" clashes with the conservative attachment to tradition-based institutions and hierarchies, yet fascism often romanticizes the past as inspiration for national rebirth.

Fascism has a complex relationship with established elites and the non-fascist right. It is never a mere puppet of the ruling class, but an autonomous movement with its own social base. In practice, fascism defends capitalism against instability and the left, but also pursues an agenda that sometimes clashes with capitalist interests in significant ways. There has been much cooperation, competition, and interaction between fascism and other sections of the right, producing various hybrid movements and regimes.


Now, how is that not evil?

	19-06-2003 14:33									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth

Not unheard of. Nation building as it is comonly held is usually undertake after a regime change or at the birth of a newly constituted nation. You would find it going on in East Timor right now.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide.

Of course the key word in the last sentence is often It isn't assured of and it will not be the automatic outcome of such a government. Example in kind is Spain under Franco Fransico.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic At the same time, fascists may embrace a form of internationalism based on either racial or ideological solidarity across national boundaries. Usually fascism espouses open male supremacy, though sometimes it may also promote female solidarity and new opportunities for women of the privileged nation or race.

This of course does not apply in Sheepsta. Sheepstans living in Alecrast the only major expatriate community are considered traitors to the Republic. Anybody else Sheepstan is championed. Women are not persecuted as hell, they are fun in the sack. Maybe you should come sometime?

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Fascism's approach to politics is both populist--in that it seeks to activate "the people" as a whole against perceived oppressors or enemies--and elitist--in that it treats the people's will as embodied in a select group, or often one supreme leader, from whom authority proceeds downward. Fascism seeks to organize a cadre-led mass movement in a drive to seize state power. It seeks to forcibly subordinate all spheres of society to its ideological vision of organic community, usually through a totalitarian state. Both as a movement and a regime, fascism uses mass organizations as a system of integration and control, and uses organized violence to suppress opposition, although the scale of violence varies widely.

There isn;t much violence permitted in Sheepsta. Testimony to this is the banning of violence from TV. However it is generally accepted throughout the nation that Alecrast tries to oppress Sheepsta and has done so in the past, in relation to the occupation of Sheepsta under the protectorates.

Which brings me to another point. European nations used to 'protect' others as an excuse to start imperialism in the area. The protectee would soon become a colony of the protector. Expample: Japan protected Korea before doing it the favour of annexing it outright in 1910. I am sure the Koreans didn;t enjoy this.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Fascism is hostile to Marxism, liberalism, and conservatism, yet it borrows concepts and practices from all three. Fascism rejects the principles of class struggle and workers' internationalism as threats to national or racial unity, yet it often exploits real grievances against capitalists and landowners through ethnic scapegoating or radical-sounding conspiracy theories. Fascism rejects the liberal doctrines of individual autonomy and rights, political pluralism, and representative government, yet it advocates broad popular participation in politics and may use parliamentary channels in its drive to power. Its vision of a "new order" clashes with the conservative attachment to tradition-based institutions and hierarchies, yet fascism often romanticizes the past as inspiration for national rebirth.

Of course this is true in used types of fascism. However is it necessarily true to Dunning? I do not know but neither do you.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Fascism has a complex relationship with established elites and the non-fascist right. It is never a mere puppet of the ruling class, but an autonomous movement with its own social base. In practice, fascism defends capitalism against instability and the left, but also pursues an agenda that sometimes clashes with capitalist interests in significant ways. There has been much cooperation, competition, and interaction between fascism and other sections of the right, producing various hybrid movements and regimes.

Of course this is threatning only to the elitists such as yourself. For the common person this is highly liberating.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Now, how is that not evil?

Proven. It is only evil if made evil.

	19-06-2003 14:56									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Not unheard of. Nation building as it is comonly held is usually undertake after a regime change or at the birth of a newly constituted nation. You would find it going on in East Timor right now.

East Timor does not have a extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties, emphasizing a myth of national or racial rebirth. Red Herring Logical Fallacy on your part. Concession accepted Sheep.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Of course the key word in the last sentence is often It isn't assured of and it will not be the automatic outcome of such a government. Example in kind is Spain under Franco Fransico.

The problem being that in your case, you've already shown those tendancies in your initial 17 point plan when Dunning came to power.

5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens.
7/ Education is to be regeared to teach that military prowress is better than diplomatic bullshit.
8/ Sheepsta is to be taught to seek revenge for the injustices of the past.
10/Racist programming will be re-introduced
11/ Democratic institutions will be demolished.
15/ All political parties will be hence forward banned. Their leaders imprisoned for cirmes against Sheepsta.
17/All non-citizens currently living in Sheepsta, will be deported, by Christmas, important buisness provided. Applications for citizenship or buisness visas must be submitted by the end of the month.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep This of course does not apply in Sheepsta. Sheepstans living in Alecrast the only major expatriate community are considered traitors to the Republic. Anybody else Sheepstan is championed. Women are not persecuted as hell, they are fun in the sack. Maybe you should come sometime?

You lie. Again from your 17 point plan.

5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens.
10/Racist programming will be re-introduced
15/ All political parties will be hence forward banned. Their leaders imprisoned for cirmes against Sheepsta."

quote: Originally posted by Sheep There isn;t much violence permitted in Sheepsta. Testimony to this is the banning of violence from TV. However it is generally accepted throughout the nation that Alecrast tries to oppress Sheepsta and has done so in the past, in relation to the occupation of Sheepsta under the protectorates.

Bullshit. How did Dunning get into power? By violence. Military force. The fact that the common citizens aren't allowed to use violence is irrelevant. Though it's not like you haven't encouraged violence against external forces, is it?

1/ Military budget will be tripled in the next twelve months, with a futher 500% increase expected in five years.
2/ All connections Sheepsta has to nuclear non-proliferation or first strike treaties are to be broken.
5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens.
7/ Education is to be regeared to teach that military prowress is better than diplomatic bullshit.
8/ Sheepsta is to be taught to seek revenge for the injustices of the past.
10/Racist programming will be re-introduced
11/ Democratic institutions will be demolished.
13/Trade is to be commenced. This is to be started by selling 10 nuclear ICBMS from the over stocked nuclear stockpile, mainly to other nations.
14/ The treaty of Mt.Gravatt will still remain a commitment in Sheepsta.
15/ All political parties will be hence forward banned. Their leaders imprisoned for cirmes against Sheepsta.
17/All non-citizens currently living in Sheepsta, will be deported, by Christmas, important buisness provided. Applications for citizenship or buisness visas must be submitted by the end of the month.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Which brings me to another point. European nations used to 'protect' others as an excuse to start imperialism in the area. The protectee would soon become a colony of the protector. Expample: Japan protected Korea before doing it the favour of annexing it outright in 1910. I am sure the Koreans didn;t enjoy this.

And how many of their governments asked for protectorate status Sheep? Totally different circumstances to what's happened here. Furthermore....Zetaris is a protectorate of Akira. Why aren't you yelling at Drogue? Oh, I know, because you're trying to suck up to him and have pressure put on me to back down.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Of course this is true in used types of fascism. However is it necessarily true to Dunning? I do not know but neither do you.

Actually, I do know, because you already stated it and more. Your 17 points damn you.

1/ Military budget will be tripled in the next twelve months, with a futher 500% increase expected in five years.
2/ All connections Sheepsta has to nuclear non-proliferation or first strike treaties are to be broken.
3/ Trade is to be resumed. No more stupid socialist politics that have crippled the economic power of the nation.
4/ All public companies are to be sold to Sheepstan citizens.
5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens.
6/ The Field Marshall ruler of the Sheepstan Republic will be in term for life.
7/ Education is to be regeared to teach that military prowress is better than diplomatic bullshit.
8/ Sheepsta is to be taught to seek revenge for the injustices of the past.
9/ Environmantal controls will be loosened, to allow big buisness back in
10/Racist programming will be re-introduced
11/ Democratic institutions will be demolished.
12/ The offical language of Sheepsta will hence forward be known as Sheepstan, not Ale-Sheepas
13/Trade is to be commenced. This is to be started by selling 10 nuclear ICBMS from the over stocked nuclear stockpile, mainly to other nations.
14/ The treaty of Mt.Gravatt will still remain a commitment in Sheepsta.
15/ All political parties will be hence forward banned. Their leaders imprisoned for cirmes against Sheepsta.
16/ The proper title for the Field Marshall will be observed at all times, and Sheepstans are required to say Heil Dunning, instead of Hello to their fellow citizens.
17/All non-citizens currently living in Sheepsta, will be deported, by Christmas, important buisness provided. Applications for citizenship or buisness visas must be submitted by the end of the month.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Of course this is threatning only to the elitists such as yourself. For the common person this is highly liberating.

Lovely Ad Hominem. If you'd kindly back up statements like that with proof, maybe people would give a wit about what you say. I am hardly elitist. Dunning however is, as demonstrated in his 17 points, and by the Facist position he holds.

1/ Military budget will be tripled in the next twelve months, with a futher 500% increase expected in five years.
2/ All connections Sheepsta has to nuclear non-proliferation or first strike treaties are to be broken.
5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens.
6/ The Field Marshall ruler of the Sheepstan Republic will be in term for life.
7/ Education is to be regeared to teach that military prowress is better than diplomatic bullshit.
8/ Sheepsta is to be taught to seek revenge for the injustices of the past.
10/Racist programming will be re-introduced
11/ Democratic institutions will be demolished.
15/ All political parties will be hence forward banned. Their leaders imprisoned for cirmes against Sheepsta.
16/ The proper title for the Field Marshall will be observed at all times, and Sheepstans are required to say Heil Dunning, instead of Hello to their fellow citizens.
17/All non-citizens currently living in Sheepsta, will be deported, by Christmas, important buisness provided. Applications for citizenship or buisness visas must be submitted by the end of the month.[/quote]

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Proven. It is only evil if made evil.

Concessions accepted. You both failed to prove that Facism is not inheriently evil, and that your breed of facism is inheriently evil.



EDIT:
Oh yes, and while I remember, the combination of 5 and 17 interests me.

5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens.
17/All non-citizens currently living in Sheepsta, will be deported, by Christmas, important buisness provided. Applications for citizenship or buisness visas must be submitted by the end of the month.

I suppose you've just given us the reason why it's an international issue and not just a domestic one. You're turning people into refugees, who'd be coming to our shores.

	19-06-2003 15:41									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic And how many of their governments asked for protectorate status Sheep? Totally different circumstances to what's happened here. Furthermore....Zetaris is a protectorate of Akira. Why aren't you yelling at Drogue? Oh, I know, because you're trying to suck up to him and have pressure put on me to back down.

No not really. First I was Sheepsta. Second of all, Zetrais was constructed by Drougue therefore he can do what he likes with it.
Completely diffrent. I am sure I never asked you to take me over. Thanks.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic EDIT: Oh yes, and while I remember, the combination of 5 and 17 interests me. 5/ All Alecrastians, Bulbagardens, non-white Sheepstans, non-christian Sheepstans are no longer to be considered Sheepstan citizens. 17/All non-citizens currently living in Sheepsta, will be deported, by Christmas, important buisness provided. Applications for citizenship or buisness visas must be submitted by the end of the month. I suppose you've just given us the reason why it's an international issue and not just a domestic one. You're turning people into refugees, who'd be coming to our shores.

Alecrastians, Bulbagardens are YOUR problem. Wether you like it or not you can;t treat other nations in the region like **** and expect to still go to them for holidays.
non-white Sheepstans were about 5,000 of them. They were found nice homes in New Sheepmania. Non-christian Sheepstans of which there about 20,000, we all found residence in Jobedpet which is nominally Sheepstan in ethnicity.

All non-citizens that are still on Sheepstan soil are for buisness and tourism visas. A ban on Alecrastian and Bulbagarden citizens is enforced. This in line with what most countries today have. How is this a problem.

	19-06-2003 16:01									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep No not really. First I was Sheepsta. Second of all, Zetrais was constructed by Drougue therefore he can do what he likes with it. Completely diffrent. I am sure I never asked you to take me over. Thanks.

1) The Sheepstan Citizens Council, which formed after the government of the United States of Sheepsta dissolved, and was the nominal leadership of the nation at that time, asked Alecrast to intervene.

2) The government of Dissidents asked Alecrast to become their protectors. The only reason you even remembered to bring Dissidents up is because you were yelling at Alecrast about it.

3) Hipocrisy and bullshit. I own Dissidents now, just as Drogue owns Zetaris, yet you yell at me and not once at him.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Alecrastians, Bulbagardens are YOUR problem. Wether you like it or not you can;t treat other nations in the region like **** and expect to still go to them for holidays. non-white Sheepstans were about 5,000 of them. They were found nice homes in New Sheepmania. Non-christian Sheepstans of which there about 20,000, we all found residence in Jobedpet which is nominally Sheepstan in ethnicity.

When did we ever treat the Sheepstan nation like ****? We've mearly yelled at its corrupt governments. The older citizens who haven't been brainwashed by the Sheepstan governments since will remmeber the generosity of the Alecrast protectorate government, and remember how all their lovely private firms were taken from them by the supposedly benign Sheepstan government.

As for those, let's see.....Jobedpet is where you sent the government you deposed, and the other nation no one's heard of. Oh yes, and let's not forget that those figures are insanely small. There is no way that so few would be non-white and/or non-christian.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep All non-citizens that are still on Sheepstan soil are for buisness and tourism visas. A ban on Alecrastian and Bulbagarden citizens is enforced. This in line with what most countries today have. How is this a problem.

It's not. I wasn't even focusing on it, as was painfully obvious. I was pointing out the fact that you were declaring people no longer citizens, and deporting them, simply because of race or religion. Red Herring Logical Fallacy on your part.

By your non-response to the other, by far more important points, and your attempts to lay nitpicks and red herrings, I can see you have no defence to the accusations. Concessions Accepted Sheep.

	19-06-2003 16:13									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic 1) The Sheepstan Citizens Council, which formed after the government of the United States of Sheepsta dissolved, and was the nominal leadership of the nation at that time, asked Alecrast to intervene. 2) The government of Dissidents asked Alecrast to become their protectors. The only reason you even remembered to bring Dissidents up is because you were yelling at Alecrast about it. 3) Hipocrisy and bullshit. I own Dissidents now, just as Drogue owns Zetaris, yet you yell at me and not once at him.

Sorry mate but technically Sheepsta has always been mine. Under the creative copyrights act (1969) and backed up precendents what is your creation remains your property.

What the hell are you bringing Dissidents in here for. Its yours. I don;t agree with it but I aint bringing it up anymore. I was going off at you over Sheepsta.

What hypocrisy. If you want people to feel sorry for you, go somewhere else.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic When did we ever treat the Sheepstan nation like ****? We've mearly yelled at its corrupt governments. The older citizens who haven't been brainwashed by the Sheepstan governments since will remmeber the generosity of the Alecrast protectorate government, and remember how all their lovely private firms were taken from them by the supposedly benign Sheepstan government.

Lets see the years of illegal blockades, the non-recognition of what is a very very popular government, causing a civil war in Sheepsta, taking the wealth from Sheepsta, firsty intervening in the Holy Empire destroying the stable government Sheepsta once had. helping destroy the USS, which I tell you again I never allowed to be rped into your little making, whether you claim I had to or not.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic As for those, let's see.....Jobedpet is where you sent the government you deposed, and the other nation no one's heard of. Oh yes, and let's not forget that those figures are insanely small. There is no way that so few would be non-white and/or non-christian.

Tell me where I said the old government fled to Jobedpet? President Ginakis did, but he died five years later. New Sheepmania is my nation in Redscape which I add has been mentioned once or twice. And the figures are not insanely small. It was only a few decades since Sheepsta was a Ctaholic Fundamentalist nation, relgions haven;t changed too much. The Catholic Church while not part of the government or backed by it is still influential.

Also immigration to Sheepsta has always been small. Sheepstans are white. No way to say that nicely. There are few non-whites in Sheepsta.

What point does it matter anyways what my relgious or ethnic makeup was. Its my nation to RP with not yours, no matter how much you wish it were.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic It's not. I wasn't even focusing on it, as was painfully obvious. I was pointing out the fact that you were declaring people no longer citizens, and deporting them, simply because of race or religion. Red Herring Logical Fallacy on your part. By your non-response to the other, by far more important points, and your attempts to lay nitpicks and red herrings, I can see you have no defence to the accusations. Concessions Accepted Sheep.

If you like concessional fish that is your problem

	19-06-2003 19:07									#22
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The Libertarian Federation formally recognises the protectorate status of Dissidents and supports Alecrastian juristiction of that nation.

	19-06-2003 19:55									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Sorry mate but technically Sheepsta has always been mine. Under the creative copyrights act (1969) and backed up precendents what is your creation remains your property.

Nice try. Even if we assumed that applied in this case, and I'd like to see that hold up in a court of law, by allowing your nation to be deleted, you surrendered it to the public domain, namely, to the region. I then made a derivitive work based upon it. All totally legal Sheep.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep What the hell are you bringing Dissidents in here for. Its yours. I don;t agree with it but I aint bringing it up anymore. I was going off at you over Sheepsta.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because......it's a thread about Dissidents, and you made all your initial comments in here about Dissidents, not Sheepsta.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep What hypocrisy. If you want people to feel sorry for you, go somewhere else.

Plenty. You were yelling at me about the protectorate status of Dissidents earlier in the thread, yet you've never attacked Drogue about Zetaris.
The only one who seems to be trying to make people feel sorry for him is you Sheep. You already know that most of the major nations in the region have allied in a coalition against you afterall.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Lets see the years of illegal blockades, the non-recognition of what is a very very popular government, causing a civil war in Sheepsta, taking the wealth from Sheepsta, firsty intervening in the Holy Empire destroying the stable government Sheepsta once had. helping destroy the USS, which I tell you again I never allowed to be rped into your little making, whether you claim I had to or not.

"Lets see the years of illegal blockades" - To put pressure on illegitimate governments. We've been supplying the underground with foodstuffs and medicines too.
"the non-recognition of what is a very very popular government" - Dictatorships that remove everyones rights aren't popular Sheep. Do you understand that simply because you created something doesn't mean anything you like can happen? It's like with the militaries. It's not reasonable for your nation to have that massive a military. It couldn't support it. Likewise here. It's not reasonable for you to have your populace support this kind of regime.
"causing a civil war in Sheepsta" - Alecrast did no such thing. New Sheepsta attacked North and South Sheepsta. The establishment of the benign protectorates, which self governerned and just had the military protection of Alecrast, was not a cause for civil war. The cause was the New Sheepstans annexing part of South Sheepsta.
"taking the wealth from Sheepsta" - Never did any such thing. Sheepsta was rebuilt, given a ton of aid, and was encouraged to develop private industry, which it did. The fact it sold goods to Alecrast is irrelevant. We paid market price. Better in some cases, because of the quality.
"firsty intervening in the Holy Empire destroying the stable government Sheepsta once had" - Which the people would thank us for. As I recall, it was the USS which asked us to interene in that in the first place, before it was only a war of words. And we ceased military actions when they requested us to as well.
"helping destroy the USS, which I tell you again I never allowed to be rped into your little making, whether you claim I had to or not" - It's not my fault that the USS was deleted. That's yours. And I didn't need you to allow me to do it, and that's a fact, regardless of if the regional court accepted it or not. *Points up*

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Tell me where I said the old government fled to Jobedpet? President Ginakis did, but he died five years later. New Sheepmania is my nation in Redscape which I add has been mentioned once or twice. And the figures are not insanely small. It was only a few decades since Sheepsta was a Ctaholic Fundamentalist nation, relgions haven;t changed too much. The Catholic Church while not part of the government or backed by it is still influential. Also immigration to Sheepsta has always been small. Sheepstans are white. No way to say that nicely. There are few non-whites in Sheepsta. What point does it matter anyways what my relgious or ethnic makeup was. Its my nation to RP with not yours, no matter how much you wish it were.

I'll find the reference when the server isn't going so slowly and it isn't 1am. With the half dozen plus threads about Sheepsta you've made, it's hard to find specific facts, or create a timeline of events.

For the hundreds of millions in your nation, it is indeed insanely small. It doens't matter if it's your nation to RP or not, you can't just declare figures or situations which simply would not be true, such as this, your military figures, your government being popular, etc.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep If you like concessional fish that is your problem

Your lack of a logical rational arguement has been duly noted.

	20-06-2003 03:49									#24
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Cometh the hour, cometh the men... just when I was short on reading material, up comes Sheep and Archaic!

	20-06-2003 06:28									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Tell me where I said the old government fled to Jobedpet?

You said it at least twice.

	20-06-2003 07:35									#26
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Noosland would like to see an Apolyton Court ruling on the future of Dissidents. What I am concerned is the right of self-determination of the people of Dissidents. It seems that a referendum is the best option.

Last edited by Urban Ranger on 20-06-2003 at 07:43

	20-06-2003 08:26									#27
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Field Marshall Dunning would agree with this proposal.

	20-06-2003 09:11									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Noosland would like to see an Apolyton Court ruling on the future of Dissidents. What I am concerned is the right of self-determination of the people of Dissidents. It seems that a referendum is the best option.

[OOC]At the moment, the Alecrast protectorate is only interim. Once the Sheepsta issue is over, Dissidents will be having a formal referendum, which will pass by a close margin, making Dissidents formally a self-governing protectorate of Alecrast. (ie. Alecrast protects it with its military, and that's about the entire level of its interferance)[/OOC]

	20-06-2003 09:13									#29
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sounds fair enough.