18-06-2003 11:46									#1
	Villager are quite hard to kill Full PM-box? Change here!

I think the game will be more fun if you can kill peon easier in early age. There will be more action in the first 5 minutes.

The only capable villager are archer and horse archer, but they cost gold, it is hardly enough in the first 5 minute .Slingers suck even in groups of 3.

In starcraft if you get through the defense, you can kill peon like flies. Vulture raid, speed zergling, lurkers, reaver, psy storm and a lot more are good at killing their econ.

In RON, it is quite hard to kill the econ of your enemy. I am quite pissed how tough the villager is when I penetrated the defense and the villager only died in more than 5 hits

	18-06-2003 17:26									#2
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RoN is designed to be very rusher un-friendly. Having the outcome decided in the first 5-10 minutes isn't very fun

	18-06-2003 17:52									#3
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In my experience, you actually need military to make dents in the enemies economy. But I have only played the demo so far.

	18-06-2003 18:28									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer_Erwin I think the game will be more fun if you can kill peon easier in early age. There will be more action in the first 5 minutes.

And that's probably as long as your games would last. You'd really be placing the emphasis on "Quick Battle", or perhaps change/edit that to "Quick Massacre".

As already mentioned, by niDe , "RoN is designed to be very rusher un-friendly. Having the outcome decided in the first 5-10 minutes isn't very fun ".

If you've got research set to "Long & Very Expensive", plus initial resources set to "Low", (almost manditory in the 3 tougher levels ), getting Military out to counter the 'Rush' would be extremely difficult. If the battles could be over in 5 mins or less I wouldn't have paid out £34.99 to buy it.

	18-06-2003 18:53									#5
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One upset me is you spend resource and micro to set up a raid to your enemy, try to bring his econ down. You only find out the villager is so tough. He tech up with ease while you micro like mad. And no action till gunpower age.

One of the fun thing in RTS is the action reaction to your enemy, while the tech up thing is you-do-your-own - bunsiness.

	18-06-2003 20:03									#6
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Try playing around with different builds and nations. There are some that have decent rushes that can hit an enemy at the 4-6 min mark. Just FYI.

Rushing is possible, though not an end-all to the game.

Try playing the Mongols, or even the Aztecs. I especially like the aztecs as you get resources for whatever you kill plus double pillage bonusses...If there is no tower and all the peasants flee, target farms instead (as Aztecs) Why just kill peasants when you can kill them and sacrifice them for 20+ to wood/food/metal etc?

Play around and you'll find a good rushing strategy that will fit your needs, but don't expect it to win the game alone for you.

	18-06-2003 20:16									#7
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The biggest blow to the rush is the inability to build on enemy land. Forward-built towers, for example, could really ruin your day in AoK if you weren't very experienced in rush counters.

Frankly, I'm delighted at the changes! So while the rush isn't impossible in RoN, it takes a whole lot more skill to pull it off properly. And that's how it should be.

	18-06-2003 20:33									#8
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Rushing and massing are the two most common strategies in almost ALL rts's. They are also the reasons I don't play any.

RoN has a nice balance that makes those all but obsolete. A rush will slow your enemy. That is all. IMO that is all it is intended to do, and should not be able to win the game alone like in so many other games. It may take time to get used to, but it will be worth it in the end.

	18-06-2003 22:57									#9
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I think the game is balanced enough... I hated computer zerg rushes in Starcraft, I'm glad that element isn't in RoN.

	19-06-2003 00:11									#10
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Zergling rush is in RON, the japanese heavy inf rush.

	19-06-2003 01:19									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer_Erwin One upset me is you spend resource and micro to set up a raid to your enemy, try to bring his econ down. You only find out the villager is so tough.

RoN has been structured so that you don't actually need to *kill* his villagers to inflict damage. So long as they are hiding from your military units, they aren't contributing to his economy and therefore, you're gaining an advantage.

Actually killing his citizens isn't as high a priority as simply stopping them from working.

	21-06-2003 04:29									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

When I under a boder push in mid game by Butu, I try to make 6 horse archer+ 2 light cav to raid his econ. Try to relieve some pressure from the front. Even his econ is defenseless, the result is poor. They re just hard to kill, they just run in the cc. This limit the tactic I can use for a castle push, only choice is build your own caslte. Econ raid are just too powerless.

	21-06-2003 12:10									#13
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If you really want to kill off civies use the Mongols. If you practice you can get out as many as 3 stables which, if you have military level 2 will produce 9 nomads (horse archer unique units). These will seriously mess with the enemy because even if they don't kill the civies most players will ring the bell and their economy will immediately halt. Set them on patrol just out of the range of the towers and cities and add a few more as time progresses and it'll hamper the enemies growth.

If you want a more general "kill all rush" you're not going to find one, but I find the Romans are pretty good in this field. Research military quickly and put alot of men on wood. You can build a few barracks then at the all-timber cost (if you have a good inflow of timber; may require commerce 2 as well). Each barracks will give you heavy infantry. If you're fast you can get up to classical and upgrade them to legions which will do very well as a rush.

Cities have alot of hp though and if they ring the bell don't expect to finish off the enemy. But if you send in 3 or 4 legions you can destroy some farms and wood cutters camps. The city won't do a whole lot of damage against your heavily armored men but you probably won't have enough to take it, so focus on resource collection and then while they're busy fighting your men out build a city to extend your territory in his direction (I assume you're rushing someone near you, else you're stupid). If you're on a small enough map your borders should collide and then you can plop down a few more barracks right on the tips of your borders and send in some more legions to harrass them. Towers are another Roman advantage so defending your barracks on your borders should be easy, especially if your enemy is in disarray.

While they're fighting your men keep reinforcing them with the tough roman heavy infantry (which owns all forms of infantry, unlike its phalanx counterpart). If you can keep up your own economy well you should hit medieval while the fool is still struggling to hold you off and, if you're really good, you can get out a siege shop in classical and throw in some catapults.

- PTM