18-06-2003 22:23									#31
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US railroad construction costs are about $1 mil per mile in flat or rolling terrain, $3 mil per mile in mountainous terrain.

	18-06-2003 22:42									#32
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Lawrence of Arabia will raise once more to lead Arab guerrillas and disrupt the occupational railroad links..

	18-06-2003 22:44									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith US railroad construction costs are about $1 mil per mile in flat or rolling terrain, $3 mil per mile in mountainous terrain.

Why is it so expensive?

	18-06-2003 22:53									#34
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probably labour costs. ( though light city rail in Israel costs much more ~6-7 Mil per KM!, and 40 Mil per KM of Subway.

AS, What are the costs of locomotives?

	18-06-2003 23:09									#35
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I don't think it's feasible. Are the rail gauges the same throughout the area to be crossed? Won't the Caucasus be costly to cross, due to both the terrain and the unstable states? Isn't it an obvious target for terrorists? Would it be a conduit for terrorists? Is it wise to invest in such a project when efficient maglevs may be around the corner? Why would Russia undertake such a project when there would be greater benefits to expanding it's connections to Europe and East Asia?

	18-06-2003 23:27									#36
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There is no clear evidence that railroads are more economically feasible than other modes.

	18-06-2003 23:27									#37
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The Caucasus already has a rail link through it! It goes near the shore of the black sea!

So, how much will the railroad alone cost? some 3-4 bil USD? This could boost the trade all the nations in the region, and if it will be done privately, there is a lot of money to be made.

	18-06-2003 23:37									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious There is no clear evidence that railroads are more economically feasible than other modes.

What other modes? You mean container trucks? They are only feasible because the users don't have to pay to build the road. If they need to pay it's most likely for maintenance.

	18-06-2003 23:49									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious There is no clear evidence that railroads are more economically feasible than other modes.

What other modes? You mean container trucks? They are only feasible because the users don't have to pay to build the road. If they need to pay it's most likely for maintenance.

	19-06-2003 01:01									#40
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I dont think it would work. First of all, you would have a monopoly and the governments of each country would try to regulate you. Secondly, each government would tax the **** out of any train carrying anything, so that will increase the price. Also, Russia has narrow gauge railroad tracks and hooking them up to the standard gauge would be a problem. The fact is, railroads are just about outdated. Only very high speed lines will be taken by passengers, but only in short to medium distances (like TGV, AVE, or EuroRail) This is because it is quicker then taking the plane. Over longer distances, the planes become quicker.

	19-06-2003 01:10									#41
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I don't have a monopoly. People can still send cargo by ship, and many of them will, but naval transport is slower, and will cost more ( I am not sure about this, actually).

and for the Nth time, My RR will most deal with freight!.

	19-06-2003 01:14									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What other modes? You mean container trucks? They are only feasible because the users don't have to pay to build the road. If they need to pay it's most likely for maintenance.

Aren't there already roads?

	19-06-2003 01:18									#43
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Raggedy Roads.

	19-06-2003 01:19									#44
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UR:
Most of the construction cost is in grading i.e., moving the earth around to get a stable base for the track. Cars and locomotives can weigh between 100 and 200 tons each, so you need a solid base to build on. Also, trains do not climb hills as well as trucks because trains are much heavier. Trains therefore need longer gentler grades to get up any given hill.

Azazel:
A state of the art US locomotive costs about $1.5 mil. These are pretty big critters (about 6000 horsepower). Locomotives for a project like this might be half the size and cost half as much.

Kidicious:
The economic feasibiilty of railroads vs. trucks depends on the circumstances. A railroad costs more to build, but it can carry about four times as much traffic as a similar highway. Truck operating costs are about two to three times that of railroads. Railroads are also about three times as fuel-efficient (and therefore less polluting) than trucks. On the other hand, railroad incur the time and expense to assemble freight into train-sized lots. (Containerization makes these costs much lower.) If you have more than about five million tons per year moving more than about five hundred to seven hundred miles, then railroads are cheaper.

	19-06-2003 01:25									#45
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quote: Also, trains do not climb hills as well as trucks because trains are much heavier.

Not neccessarily a weight issue, but more of a HP/Weight issue.

Thanks a lot for the information.

So, Adam, do you think it's feasible?

	19-06-2003 02:08									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Not neccessarily a weight issue, but more of a HP/Weight issue.

Correct. Trucks usually have about 10 horsepower per gross ton. Trains usually have about 2 horsepower per gross ton (in part due to less resistance from riding on a fixed guideway)

quote: Originally posted by Azazel So, Adam, do you think it's feasible?

How much freight do you expect and how far will it travel? How many mountain ranges do you need to cross and how many cities do you need to pass through? My gut feel is that the ME economies on the south end of the line are not large enough to make this profitable ... yet.

	19-06-2003 02:15									#47
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Can one take a look at the amounts of trade between countries in cash, and then make an estimation of the amount of TUs it would take to transport it, from looking at the types of goods taking the journey?