27-06-2003 09:34									#31
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quote: I suggest you exchange Breslau and Krakow, Pap. Also, the Netherlands and Belgium "entered" the war on May 10th, 1940, the day when Germany attacked. They should be neutral too. And something concerning your units: I would think about giving the Germans only the medium tanks. On September 1st, 1939 there were not even 300 PzKw IV. The Wehrmacht attacked Poland mainly with PzKw I and II.

Thanks Jim, I fixed Breslau and Krakow, and Amsterdam and Brussels are now Neutral cities.

About the units, I was planning on giving the Germans very few tanks from the start at 1938. They will have Light Tanks only and will have to get the technology for the Panzer III and Panzer IV. It is going to take a lot of balancing to decide how many units to give the Germans from the beginning. I might give them very few offensive weapons from the beginning, and force them to research a technology called "Fall Weiss" The technology will give them more tank and aircraft units towards the frontlines of Poland.

Let me know what you think about it, and thanks a lot for your help.

Pap

	27-06-2003 09:36									#32
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quote: You simply can't have the start date of 2194 Days of War be in 1936, you'll have to rename the scenario! "3289 Days of War and Buildup to War"

HAHAHA!!! That's good stuff!

	27-06-2003 11:35									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Pap1723 Thanks for the information about that area of England, very informative. I was considering turning Manchester into Leeds since during WWII Leeds had 700,000 plus people. I will look into Newcastle though, especially since you tell me it was an important shipyard. Here is the link for you: http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populstat/populhome.html Pap

Interesting site, thanks. I see you've used Leeds as the replacement for Mancheser; this is going to annoy you, but Leeds is as land-locked as Manchester, being just to the east of the Pennines. Also, it produces nothing other than lardy Yorkshiremen and a crap football team . I'd choose an Eastern coastal city like Newcastle or Hull, but it's your scenario

	27-06-2003 14:18									#34
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And please: do not forget that Breslau was a german city!

	27-06-2003 18:32									#35
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Remember to give the French player some chance of survival.

	27-06-2003 18:40									#36
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But isn't he trying to make it realistic? ( )

	27-06-2003 20:53									#37
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At that time it wasn't that realistic that Germany would actually succeed in conquering France. I agree with EmuGod.

	28-06-2003 14:09									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Kobra At that time it wasn't that realistic that Germany would actually succeed in conquering France. I agree with EmuGod.

Sorry for sliding a bit off topic but I think that in 1940 nothing could have saved France. If the British and the French troops wouldn´t have advanced into Belgium, if General Huntziger would have defended the Ardennes more fiercly it would have caused more german casualties but it would not have changed the outcome of the battle in 1940.
There would have been nothing that could stop the Wehrmacht in May 1940 and could have prevented the Germans from smashing the French Army. The 2ieme Bureau (the french General Staff Department for Recon) had a very, very good analysis of the german Blitzkrieg Tactics from Poland (using planes and tanks to keep moving) but the french High Command had not understand the german tactics in 1940.
The french High Command knew also that the german tanks were usually lighter and less armored but their range was greater than the french tank but [IMHO] THE two main reasons for the german succes in 1940 were (1) the new concept of warfare (Blitzkrieg), meaning that the Luftwaffe and the Panzer Divisions were operating like an army on their own. The Panzer Units also broke through the lines at Sedan and after some bombing runs of the Luftwaffe vast numbers of French soldiers fled; (2) and the WW1 style french military doctrine. The french High Command never prepared their soldiers for a situation like in May/June 1940. Even Marshal Pétain wrote short before the war that "...an invasion [of France] is not possible against this army ...".

France was doomed to fall as the military aspect is only one aspect of the degeneration of the French 3rd Republic. This degeneration undermined almost everything concerning the war efforts at the beginning of WW2. IMHO, They should have very few chances in surviving the German assault.

	28-06-2003 18:39									#39
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Good points, but if France is to be playable, then the player controlls who to be France's military leaders. He would also be able to create stronger alliances than France had in the beginning of the war. The political infighting was also a major problem and that would be swept aside with a person controlling France's military. The morale of the French was also very low, that factor would be eliminated, even the decadence of the inter-war years.

Just some other points: Germany was not that superior to the French army. French troops was more experienced and did well in battles against the Germans. Perhaps more than anything else, the cause of the defeat was the failure of the French to pinpoint where the main thrust of the German army would come, a failure that led them to put their best soldiers up against a feint, while their worst troops faced the heart of the German war machine.

IMHO, they could have had a chance if things where done differently.

Last edited by Eivind IV on 28-06-2003 at 19:47

	28-06-2003 23:33									#40
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse Sorry for sliding a bit off topic but I think that in 1940 nothing could have saved France. If the British and the French troops wouldn´t have advanced into Belgium, if General Huntziger would have defended the Ardennes more fiercly it would have caused more german casualties but it would not have changed the outcome of the battle in 1940. There would have been nothing that could stop the Wehrmacht in May 1940 and could have prevented the Germans from smashing the French Army. The 2ieme Bureau (the french General Staff Department for Recon) had a very, very good analysis of the german Blitzkrieg Tactics from Poland (using planes and tanks to keep moving) but the french High Command had not understand the german tactics in 1940. The french High Command knew also that the german tanks were usually lighter and less armored but their range was greater than the french tank but [IMHO] THE two main reasons for the german succes in 1940 were (1) the new concept of warfare (Blitzkrieg), meaning that the Luftwaffe and the Panzer Divisions were operating like an army on their own. The Panzer Units also broke through the lines at Sedan and after some bombing runs of the Luftwaffe vast numbers of French soldiers fled; (2) and the WW1 style french military doctrine. The french High Command never prepared their soldiers for a situation like in May/June 1940. Even Marshal Pétain wrote short before the war that "...an invasion [of France] is not possible against this army ...". France was doomed to fall as the military aspect is only one aspect of the degeneration of the French 3rd Republic. This degeneration undermined almost everything concerning the war efforts at the beginning of WW2. IMHO, They should have very few chances in surviving the German assault.

Assuming this scenario began in May 1940 with the France having the same forces it did then, I would agree with you. However, this scenario begins in early 1939, so France has many different ways of arming and preparing for a possible German invasion. French units should have some chance of being able to repel a German invasion and France should have some technologies that it can research to help it survive. Otherwise, there is no point in making a playable French civilization.

	29-06-2003 06:09									#41
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...But I only have to agree to some extent; It is no fun making a ww2 scenario where France is the victor in a possible war between Germany and France. If Germany had not won the war with France, it would have never become a world war.

	29-06-2003 07:17									#42
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When Germany was fighting Britain and France, it already was a world war as the largest empires were fighting and massive amounts of forces were being drawn from all parts of the world.

	29-06-2003 11:57									#43
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Well, but still I personally don't consider it as ww2 before Russia and the USA are dragged into the war. That was when every part of the world became a battlefield and the vast majority of the worlds’ industrial capacity was used to make the implements of war.

But that was not my point. My point was that Germany would be stopped already in 1940, if they failed to invade France. And how fun would that be?

	29-06-2003 15:47									#44
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quote: Originally posted by EmuGod Assuming this scenario began in May 1940 with the France having the same forces it did then, I would agree with you. However, this scenario begins in early 1939, so France has many different ways of arming and preparing for a possible German invasion. French units should have some chance of being able to repel a German invasion and France should have some technologies that it can research to help it survive. Otherwise, there is no point in making a playable French civilization.

Hell, France tried to build up some tank regiments on their own but the idea behind the usage of these units was completely different though Gen. de Gaulle had some ideas of how to use them (Montcornet).

Anyway, let´s stop this off topic discussion. I would suggest that France could build up tank forces but it would take some time to research them.
And, it´s always YOUR scenario, Pap.

	29-06-2003 16:40									#45
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse Sorry for sliding a bit off topic but I think that in 1940 nothing could have saved France. If the British and the French troops wouldn´t have advanced into Belgium, if General Huntziger would have defended the Ardennes more fiercly it would have caused more german casualties but it would not have changed the outcome of the battle in 1940.

I'm not too sure about that: the Germans didn't have the logisitics to support a lengthy fight, and German morale was almost as brittle as French morale: if the German army had recived a bloody nose at the hands of the French in 1940, then it's not inconceivable that the army could have collapsed. Most Germans weren't keen on renewing the war with the French, and every conscript army is a reflection of the society which it draws it's conscripts from.

In addition, you need to bear in mind that the Germans had a grand total of only about 15 good divisions (the Panzer, parachute and motorised formations). The German infantry which made up the remaining 100 odd divisions was no better then the Allied infantry, and was certainly a lot less mobile then the Allied formations.

The only area where the Germans had a decisive qualitative and quantitative superiority over the Allies was in the air, and this could have been avoided if the French and British political leadership had rearmed in time to match the Luftwaffe.

	29-06-2003 21:24									#46
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Good discussions guys I was out of town all weekend, so I'm jsut getting a chance to read this now.

The scenario actually is going to start in April of 1939 right after the Dismemberment of Czech. I was figuring out how to try and make the French playable and the best idea I came up with was to give them technologies they can research that will give them units in different places. I haven't decided exactly where I will put these units, but I am thinking I will give them 2 options for techs, with them either getting more offensive units to attack north into the Low Countries or more defensive units to defend from the possible German invasion.

Pap

	07-07-2003 00:22									#47
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Any news, pap?

	07-07-2003 17:25									#48
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Rename Richmond to Norfolk. Richmond is inland and relatively unimportant, while Norfolk is a major naval base, and is conveniently located where you placed Richmond

	10-07-2003 05:45									#49
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Norfolk it is!

I have been working a lot on this, sorry about the lack of updates, I have all of the Wonders and also the Improvements and many of the technologies figured out, but I have a question...

Should I allow countries to switch governments? I am going to rename Communism to War Government so that when countries are at war, they do not suffer impossible unhappiness problems at home. I would like to start the USA and Britain under Democracy and then give them the ability to switch to War Government if they want to, but do you think this is a good idea?

Pap

	01-08-2003 16:42									#50
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I was under the impression that you could turn unhappiness as a result of war off in PTW.