19-06-2003 17:21									#1
	Violent Clashes during a Settlement Evacuation Remove this text

quote: Settlers torch Palestinian fields to disrupt Yitzhar outpost removal By Amos Harel, Nadav Shragai and Moshe Reinfeld, Haaretz Correspondents and Haaretz Service Violent clashes erupted Thursday between settlers and security forces as evacuation began of the illegal outpost of Mitzpeh Yitzhar, adjacent to the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar, south of Nablus. Settlers ignited Palestinian-owned wheat fields and olive groves in the area in an attempt to disrupt the operation, which was the first to remove an inhabited outpost. Ten uninhabited outposts were removed last week. The hundreds of paratroopers and police who managed to make their way to the hilltop were armed only with the knives they carried to remove the settlers' tents. Hundreds of settlers turned back soldiers attempting to take down the main tent located in the center of the outpost, and hundreds more settlers were reported to be making their way to the site to join the resistence. Security forces resumed their efforts at around 3 P.M. to remove the outpost after halting it for a few hours in the afternoon. Four police officers and three settlers suffered extremely ight injuries. Yesha Council leaders, and Knesset members Uri Ariel and Arye Eldad were currently at the outpost. The army placed a closure on all settlements near the Mitzpeh Yitzhar outpost and erected roadblocks on area roads to prevent additional settlers from joining the fray. But settlers pushed aside many roadblocks in order to reach the outpost, and set ignited fields. Military vehicles encountered difficulties arriving at Mitzpeh Yitzhar, due to youths who placed obstacles as well as their own bodies on roads and paths leading to the outpost. Settlers said that some of them had been arrested. Dozens of additional settlers from nearby settlements arrived at the outpost during the initial stages of the evacuation in order to join the efforts to deter the security forces. Yosi Peli, a settler from the nearby Yitzhar settlement, said that despite the large contingent of troops, the protesters remained committed to retaining the outpost. "This is our land, our home," he said. "Tomorrow we will be here again on this hill or on other hills." According to Peli there had been minor confrontations at the outpost which have left two settlers injured. Peli showed The Associated Press a list of rules of engagement provided by the settlers council. Demonstrators were advised to avoid violence and to use passive resistance. But, Peli said, "When someone is trying to take you from your home it's difficult to know what will be."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/305560.html

More people are on the way to Itzhar. A bus and a few taxies filled with people left Jerusalem a few minutes ago.

An Israeli news site says that according to the Yesha Council, 4 Israeli soldiers refused to carry out the orders.

According to eyewitnesses from the area, the policemen do not wear their badges to avoid recognition and a possible lawsuit if they use excessive force.
This is not the first time they do it, during the evacuation of Havat Gilad a while ago, the same happened(with the badges).

	19-06-2003 18:00									#2
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I would have left those settlers reponsible for torching the wheat fields behind for the Palestinian justice system.

	19-06-2003 18:14									#3
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DD, I got no love for them, but there is no justice system on the other side.

	19-06-2003 18:17									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel DD, I got no love for them, but there is no justice system on the other side.

Your point is? They should have thought of that before torching the wheat fields.

	19-06-2003 18:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I would have left those settlers reponsible for torching the wheat fields behind for the Palestinian justice system.

Maybe that would have taught the other settlers who would be willing to do so.

I hope these settlers will be judged, and will be the ones paying for the damage done.

	19-06-2003 18:23									#6
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it wouldn't have taught anyone anything, just increased the wish to take revenge, you know the kind

	19-06-2003 18:24									#7
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I guess you'd be ok with Americans being hanged for vandalism.

My prediction is, that all of those people will probably be sent to jail and then released after a couple of weeks. And yes, that would be too light a sentence.

	19-06-2003 18:28									#8
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maybe they should be burned as well

	19-06-2003 18:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I guess you'd be ok with Americans being hanged for vandalism.

Sure, if they were stupid enough to do such a thing in a country that punished vandals like that. You could even cane them.

quote: My prediction is, that all of those people will probably be sent to jail and then released after a couple of weeks.

Will all of thier belongings at least be sold off to mitigate the damage to the victim(s) because of thier crime?

	19-06-2003 18:36									#10
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The settlers who use violence should be punished. (passive resistance is ok)
The policemen without the badges and whoever ordered them to remove the badges should be punished.
The soldiers who refused orders(if it's true) should be punished.

	19-06-2003 18:41									#11
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The settlers who use violence should be punished. (passive resistance is ok)
The policemen without the badges and whoever ordered them to remove the badges should be punished.
The soldiers who refused orders(if it's true) should be punished.

	19-06-2003 18:49									#12
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quote: Sure, if they were stupid enough to do such a thing in a country that punished vandals like that. You could even cane them.

Since they didn't do it there, but in Israel, the point is void.

Oh, and yeah, right, you'd have no problem with that.

	19-06-2003 18:52									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Since they didn't do it there, but in Israel, the point is void.

Incidentaly, what punishment would your racist justice system meet out to Palestinian that did the exact samething to a Jewish farmer?

	19-06-2003 19:05									#14
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I don't know. Nothing serious, too. They wouldn't force to pay back the value of the field. Probably take him to jail too.


Nice troll, though.

	19-06-2003 19:37									#15
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Who will pay back the value of the fields ?

	19-06-2003 19:41									#16
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Noone, automatically. They can sue the settlers in a civil court though.

	19-06-2003 19:41									#17
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the EU

	19-06-2003 19:45									#18
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You mean via the PNA? Try again.

	19-06-2003 19:45									#19
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Two new outposts were founded near Hebron in the last hours.

	19-06-2003 19:46									#20
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why? we always build up what you guys later destroy. like their airport.

sue!

	19-06-2003 19:47									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Two new outposts were founded near Hebron in the last hours.

This could grow to be an interesting game of whack a mole if Sharon is serious about cracking down on illegal settlements.

	19-06-2003 19:48									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Noone, automatically. They can sue the settlers in a civil court though.

I highly doubt they could sustain a trial in an Israeli court, especially since the Settlers are likely to be backed by some settler-sympathizers who'll hire top-notch lawyers. And I'm also sure that a Palestinian court, if it bothers doing something despite not being bribed, won't have any impact on these Israeli settlers.

Hence, IIUC, these farmers are screwed bigtime, and their work of a lifetime is ruined. Way to go if you want to stop the hatred between the two populations

	19-06-2003 19:48									#23
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You did build it ( actually, AFAIK, it wasn't your cash), but it was the Palestinians' Airport. We were at war with them. Bang.

	19-06-2003 19:56									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Two new outposts were founded near Hebron in the last hours.

When do the bulldozers barge in ?

	19-06-2003 19:59									#25
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This doesn't look good to the outside world, since it makes all of the Palestinian accusations appear to be true. Just as the PA can't control its militants, neither can Israel.

	19-06-2003 20:00									#26
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quote: I highly doubt they could sustain a trial in an Israeli court, especially since the Settlers are likely to be backed by some settler-sympathizers who'll hire top-notch lawyers. And I'm also sure that a Palestinian court, if it bothers doing something despite not being bribed, won't have any impact on these Israeli settlers.

Believe me, you'll have good lawyers for both sides. Like the Barguti's lawyer. There are organizations that will finance this, and some lawyers will volounteer. There are precendents, you know.

quote: and their work of a lifetime is ruined

It's a wheat field.

	19-06-2003 20:06									#27
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they'll buy crops elsewhere instead and sue the Israeli settlers on the same cost... there might be a chance there

	19-06-2003 20:13									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Believe me, you'll have good lawyers for both sides. Like the Barguti's lawyer. There are organizations that will finance this, and some lawyers will volounteer. There are precendents, you know.

Glad to read that

quote: quote: and their work of a lifetime is ruined It's a wheat field.

And an olive grove. Besides, the burning may have made the field les productive for quite some time. Indeed, I thought the burning included the farming tools, but that was my imagination speaking.
Fact is, it will need time and money to replant the fields (and especially the olive grove : how much time does an olive tree need to mature ?), and I highly doubt that Palestinians peasants have this money, if they don't get it back.

I hope the settler's purse will bleed to nothingness

	19-06-2003 20:21									#29
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quote: Besides, the burning may have made the field les productive for quite some time.

I always believed it to be the other way around, burning making land more fertile....


ANYWAY, THIS IS NOT THE POINT.

I would also like to point out that the vast majority of the 200,000+ Settlers are nothing like that. They are just people that moved in search of cheap housing, and better financial conditions. It's just as wrong to generalize about them, as it is to generalize about the palestinians.

	19-06-2003 20:26									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I would also like to point out that the vast majority of the 200,000+ Settlers are nothing like that. They are just people that moved in search of cheap housing, and better financial conditions.

Actually, I thought the living conditions in the colonies were much harded than in the rest of Israel, with smaller wages and more difficult hounsing conditions / education for children / transportation etc.
This led me to believe that people became settlers not out of personal interest or something, but because of an enthusiastic belief in Eretz Israel and in the extension of the country...

Unsurprisingly, it led me to dislike settlers.