19-06-2003 17:34									#1
	Why is there no American Populist Party? Inflate your Upload Space

Polls done over the years seem to generally indicate that that vast majority of Americans are socially conservative and economic liberals (though still more right-wing than europeans). I don't think this is in dispute (if it is, say why you don't believe this).

Amazingly, though, the two American parties are socially and economic conservatives or both liberal, so neither party fully represents the American people. As a result, both parties are pitted fanatically against each other with some crazy partisanship...

Now it seems to me that any Populist party would be guarenteed a majority but there hasn't been one since the turn of the century. Even when you take a look at third parties, from libertarians to greens, no party is socially conservative and economically liberal. Why is this?

I got a feeling that its the whole crabs in a barrel mindset that ruined the populist party in the 19th century... poor southern whites refused to vote for the party that was open to poor blacks, even though they supported populism in almost every other regard. Are the lower classes in america so pitted against each other that any union creating a populist party would fail?

(Albert Speer thinks there should be a ANP in the BNP's style but without its racism)


thanks

	19-06-2003 18:17									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, it has to do with the fact that many of the socially conservative + economic liberals don't have trust in politics, or belong to the poorer classes who generally tends to distrust / not care about politics.

I suppose small populist parties do exist in the US, but they have no chance to become middle-sized or big for the same reason a really left-wing party can't hope for it either : the electoral law is made in such a way that only 2 big parties can compete. As long as you'll keep your electoral system, no major different party will emerge, except if one of Republocrats do a real major blunder (like burning American cities)

	19-06-2003 18:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

There used to be a populist party, a long time ago.

	19-06-2003 18:49									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

A truly populist party would be both fiscally and socially liberal.

	19-06-2003 19:08									#5
	Put an end to popups!

.

	20-06-2003 03:27									#6
	Got spare money?

Monolith:

how would it possibly be socially liberal? the Populists of the late 19th century were very socially conservative and were made up of born again Christians, prohibitionists, southernors, etc.

and anyway, even still... that dont answer why there is not even a minor party representing social conservatism and economic liberalism... if the majority of Americans fit that belief system, why would there be no party representing that? Why aren't either the Republicans or the Democrats that? If one did become like that, they would be assured victories in elections


thanks

	20-06-2003 05:45									#7
	Suffering from ads?

Ignoring the Bush administration, how exactly aren't Republicans socially conservative and fiscally anarchic?

	20-06-2003 05:48									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

St Leo:

my bad... by economic liberal i meant liberal in the American sense of moderate capitalist a la the Democratic party. so capitalism with some welfare state ideas...

	20-06-2003 05:51									#9
	Suffering from ads?

Possibly because parts of America, like the PNAC, are obsessed with America showing leftist tendencies, especially since the end of the cold war, when I visited, the people I talked to seemed to me to be pretty paranoid about it.

I think it would be a good idea to have a new party, but ideally, I'd like to see a liberal party in America, one that is much closer to the original principles of that nations foundations, than the current crop of parties or indeed popular views in America that would no doubt cause the founding fathers to be spinning in thier graves.

	20-06-2003 06:22									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Why is there no American Populist Party?

because of the electoral system?

	20-06-2003 06:24									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: because of the electoral system?

	20-06-2003 06:43									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Populist just aint popular no mo

	20-06-2003 06:47									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

in reference to some of the Bush comments in this thread... the man is by no means a real conservative. His massive spending and increase in government power, plus his anti-free-market protectionist policies fly in the face of everything conservative. That's why so many former Bush supporters are becoming alienated. His socially "conservative" policies aren't necessarily conservative. Their more authoritarian. Believe it or not, but I come from a socially conservative family. It's just that I was raised that imposing MY social beliefs on someone is wrong.

Anyways... there are people out there that would fall in line with "Populist" ideals. The fact is, the system is designed for two parties. There should be more. A two-party system is anti-democratic. America is a very diverse nation, it's a shame that politically, everything is channeled into two choices. And sometimes, both choices end up doing the same thing anyways. No wonder so many Americans don't vote. There aren't parties that support what average Americans believe in. Washington is a colleciton of America's Elite... bickering amongst each other, often times dragging the people into their petty disputes.

	20-06-2003 06:53									#14
	Remove this text

I think its free market when its either not interfering in a bad way, or helping out business. Double standards alarm is ringing yet again.

	20-06-2003 07:25									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

"socially conservative and economic liberals"

nationalist socialist?

	20-06-2003 07:47									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Lancer:

perhaps... populism does have a bit in common with fascism... actually, a lot in common though people generally don't think of Andrew Jackson or William Jennings Byran as idealogically similiar to mussolini

	20-06-2003 08:10									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Okey dokey

	20-06-2003 08:11									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Lancer:

Are you denying that most Americans are socially conservative but economically liberals?

	20-06-2003 08:16									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Sounds reasonable to me.

I know where you're going with this, and no, being popular or socially conservative and economicly liberal doesn't make Andrew Jackson a Mussolini.

	20-06-2003 08:21									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Lancer:

The thing you are forgetting is that marxism and the industrial revolution occured between Jackson and Mussolini so the world completely changed so their attitudes while steming from the same basic ideas also changed and appear dis-similiar. Had Jackson been transported to 1940, he might very well have been Mussolini-like or at least somewhat like a slightly more right-wing Kingfisher (or whatever the name of the gov of Louisiana was in the 40's)

thanks

	20-06-2003 08:27									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Maybe...and maybe if an eagle had a sqiggley tail it would be a pig.

	20-06-2003 08:29									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Albert: I'd say most Americans are fiscally conservative.

	20-06-2003 08:30									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Lancer:

Take whatever the name of the Louisiana governor was... you don't see any similiarities between him and his ideas with those of Jackson? especially keeping in mind that during Jackson's presidency, detractors referred to him as King Andrew I because many felt he had become a pseudo-dictator (and he did break the constitution plenty of times) off his immense popularity with the lower class masses.

	20-06-2003 08:31									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sava:

Conservative by who's standards though... I would say, in all honesty, the average american on economics is pretty close to the Democrats except people love tax cuts and they are generally suspicious of welfare... nevertheless, americans dont seem to mind gov't spending on medicare and what not.

	20-06-2003 08:34									#25
	Suffering from ads?

Fiscally conservative as in not wanting to live way beyond their means or capabilities... i.e. RECORD DEFICITS

Why are you citing Medicare and Welfare as wasteful spending? These massive deficits are due to excessive military spending and corporate handouts. I think it's strange that someone living in an area of poverty wouldn't be more against corporate handouts... considering you consider yourself a capitalist-type person.

Last edited by Sava on 20-06-2003 at 08:39

	20-06-2003 08:35									#26
	Remove this text

Alb: You and Uber ought to form a populist party, I would support you guys over the two parties we have now.

	20-06-2003 08:37									#27
	Suffering from ads?

monkspider:

Uber as in UberKrux? if so... eww...

	20-06-2003 08:40									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sava:

I'm all for corporate hand-outs if they bring jobs into poor areas... if they don't then, i'm against them. but the point is, i was talking about the average american who probably thinks welfare is more wasteful than subsidies or what not

	20-06-2003 08:43									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

ah I see... do you realize that corporate handouts are more Socialist/Communist than welfare, unversal education and health care programs?

Such subsidies are inherent of a planned economic policy, the very ideology you are so militantly opposed.

	20-06-2003 08:47									#30
	Tired of ads?

Sava:

I want more jobs... if the gov't pays companies to stay in the inner city and ****, i dont give a damn if thats capitalist or communist...


thanks