19-06-2003 20:21									#1
	Rugby - Advantage Over! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Seeing as everyone is champing at the bit for a new rugby thread - here ya go!

Sorry I let the other one get so full, it's been a busy couple of days for me. You guys ok with the new title?

	19-06-2003 20:27									#2
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Personally I think we should keep Frustrated Poet's thread.

	19-06-2003 20:39									#3
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What's wrong with keeping both? The more rugby threads the better I say...

	19-06-2003 20:41									#4
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It'll burn out too quickly with such a non technical title.

Personally I want to encourage Finbar to turn the eye that saw all that English infringment last weekend onto the upcoming tri nations. I think it will put our effort into perspective.

	19-06-2003 20:43									#5
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I agree with him. There was a lot of English infringement, that's why the All Blacks got 20 penalties and we had 2 men sin binned. It's not our fault they couldn't score enough points to win from all that.

	19-06-2003 20:45									#6
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bah! What a rubbish opening post. Couldn't you do any better than that?

I thought a parody version of the opening post of my thread would have been great.

	19-06-2003 20:45									#7
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Thank God for the Tri-nations.

New slogan for the Tri-nations - The Tri-nations - At least we can't lose to England

	19-06-2003 20:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet bah! What a rubbish opening post. Couldn't you do any better than that? I thought a parody version of the opening post of my thread would have been great.

Hey, I was too busy posting the parody of an English rugby supporter in your thread!

	19-06-2003 20:52									#10
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That was a parody? Just sounded like your normal posts.

	19-06-2003 20:55									#11
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Ah ha! So you do read them!

	20-06-2003 04:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Personally I think we should keep Frustrated Poet's thread.

Yeah, for kindling to get a fire going.

	20-06-2003 04:40									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH I agree with him. There was a lot of English infringement, that's why the All Blacks got 20 penalties and we had 2 men sin binned. It's not our fault they couldn't score enough points to win from all that.

Gee. Something else that will fascinate the archaeologists and palaeontologists in eons to come - evidence that the English rugby-following male can have more than one eye.

	20-06-2003 05:47									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It'll burn out too quickly with such a non technical title.

Is that your euphemism for "dull"? Your sensitivity to a compatriot's feelings is admirable.

quote: Personally I want to encourage Finbar to turn the eye that saw all that English infringment last weekend onto the upcoming tri nations. I think it will put our effort into perspective.

Put it this way, if a Tri-Nations team cops 20+ penalties, it will be their fault. As it was England's last weekend.

There's a nice little article on the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald this morning. Tongue in cheek, it suggests the Australian tourism industry will be barracking for England tomorrow night because WRC tour bookings are way down on what was expected. An England win, the logic goes, will bring more Poms for the WRC. Which might be true to some extent. The reality probably is that, typically, the operators here were - and probably still are - trying to milk the event by inflating prices and imposing conditions like minimum 10-night hotel stays, sure ways to scare off potential visitors. The Australian tourism industry never learns. They fell for exactly the same trap with the Olympics. Ludicrous prices and conditions were slashed and scrapped when panic set in as the event neared and bookings were abysmal.

Which brings me to the point. Presumably when England hosts the WRC, Havak's B&B will be offering a Li-Lo on the lounge floor and a full English breakfast of a plate of pork pies and a gallon of bitter?

Oh, and Nathan Sharpe will be starting tomorrow night. I hope and pray they've made the right decision.

	20-06-2003 13:11									#15
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quote: New slogan for the Tri-nations - The Tri-nations - At least we can't lose to England

Don’t you find losing to the Wallabies worse? It always bother me more than losing to the ABs.

quote: evidence that the English rugby-following male can have more than one eye.

He made a fairly reasonable point – the ABs didn’t lever the advantage the cards gave them?

quote: Put it this way, if a Tri-Nations team cops 20+ penalties, it will be their fault. As it was England's last weekend.

And they will. All it will take is an NH referee. We only copped that many because it was an Aussie.

quote: WRC tour bookings are way down on what was expected

A lot of the regular English travellers went with the Lions – not everyone came back with a glowing impression of ARU hospitality.

But seriously you are probably right about the other factors being at fault. It is also the case that the tournament is fragmented. The pool round takes place in one area but depending on where you finish – first or second – the next round could be one of two places I understand. Makes it hard for our travel companies.

I checked the other week – the firm I used for the Lions (Gullivers) have spaces left for RWC. Unfortunately I won’t have enough holiday left (or enough money).

quote: Presumably when England hosts the WRC, Havak's B&B will be offering a Li-Lo on the lounge floor and a full English breakfast of a plate of pork pies and a gallon of bitter?

Absolutely – full English hospitality including that cardiac attack breakfast. Quite a change for you given the extremely nice nosh you knocked up last weekend? If they ever give RWC to us of course – 2011 is the earliest it can be now. We may have to pester Tamerlin for 2007.

quote: Oh, and Nathan Sharpe will be starting tomorrow night. I hope and pray they've made the right decision.

If they haven’t, and he isn’t 100%, it will be rapidly exposed. One thing we do possess is a very strong second row.

However it will give me the chance to see him in action properly.

	20-06-2003 13:28									#16
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Feels like we only just had the World Cup. Nearly 5 years since I went to see us spank 100 points past Tonga at Twickenham.

Havak, you are making me side with the bloody Aussie. Stop it! Personally when watching the New Zealand game I was screaming in frustration at our players for giving away so many stupid penalties. We're lucky they had some day release donkey kicking for them. It's really annoying when you know they don't need to do it.

As for the ref, in the first half the Kiwi fans were giving him an awful time because of his decisions and I think he was letting us get away with a few things that I remember being relieved about at the time. No-one should judge us on that game (or the Mauri one where we left out some key players). We played really badly.

	20-06-2003 15:51									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I am not really convinced that resisting the AB with 13 players only for ten minutes can be called "playing really badly".

Of course England has commited many fouls, but the way your players managed the game and outplayed the AB was great (the simple fact a NH team won against a SH is great as far as I am concerned).

Perhaps the English players did not play the game you would have like them to.

	20-06-2003 15:55									#18
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No, you're right I was going to go back and edit that.

We defended exceptionally well. That 8 minutes with 13 men was absolutely brilliant to watch. I assumed that was game over for us.Wilkinson's place kicking was perfect. We didn't create anything going forward and sometimes we were too cynical. Our lineouts were dodgy as well.

When we play well we can put all those things together.

	20-06-2003 18:56									#19
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quote: Havak, you are making me side with the bloody Aussie

I can't make you do any such thing - thats your own decision.

Finbar is anything but what you describe however - you'll find no stereotypes fit there.

Do I like it that the boys played a spoiling game - no. Does that devalue the win for me - no. Have the Kiwis pulled my heart strings with the claims we cheated - no!

Patty Howard - high on pain killers apparently - thinks Johno and Benny will struggle in the line out tomorrow. He must be high indeed - has he seen Paul's (the Aussies Kiwi hooker) throwing?

	20-06-2003 19:39									#20
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That was only a joke really.

	20-06-2003 19:39									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Don’t you find losing to the Wallabies worse? It always bother me more than losing to the ABs.

A Wallabies -v- ABs match is just squabbling amongst the family. It's the Boks we both like to beat.

quote: He made a fairly reasonable point – the ABs didn’t lever the advantage the cards gave them?

MikeH has also several times made the point that your lineout was less than spectacular. I'm not sure how you're going to reinterpret that. Well, you're not, obviously. You're just going to ignore it.

quote: But seriously you are probably right about the other factors being at fault. It is also the case that the tournament is fragmented. The pool round takes place in one area but depending on where you finish – first or second – the next round could be one of two places I understand. Makes it hard for our travel companies.

Comes from living in a ridiculously large country most of which is sand, gravel and asylum seekers in cages. Presumably when the WRC is staged in the confines of England, someone's backyard will be used for the Namibia -v- Georgia match.

quote: I checked the other week – the firm I used for the Lions (Gullivers) have spaces left for RWC. Unfortunately I won’t have enough holiday left (or enough money).

See? How many times have I told you! Work for yourself!

quote: We may have to pester Tamerlin for 2007.

Wouldn't he get a fright!

	20-06-2003 19:45									#22
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Our lineouts were dodgy as well.

The second eye comes into play again. I like the cut of this man's jibe, albeit the wrong colour.

Memo to Havak: if you read the bit of MikeH's post that I've quoted, please ignore it. Just in case, God forbid, you were tempted not to.

	20-06-2003 19:47									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Patty Howard - high on pain killers apparently - thinks Johno and Benny will struggle in the line out tomorrow. He must be high indeed - has he seen Paul's (the Aussies Kiwi hooker) throwing?

He obviously saw your dodgy lineouts last week and your hooker's pretty dodgy throwing.

BTW, ask MikeH about England's lineout last week.

	20-06-2003 19:49									#24
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We had some lineouts last week? That's odd ... I can't remember seeing a single one. I must have been looking the other way.

	20-06-2003 20:26									#25
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So was the Steve Thompson I think, he was throwing them beautifully into the arms of the All Black forwards.

	20-06-2003 20:27									#26
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quote: That was only a joke really.

It’s best to flag them for me.

quote: A Wallabies -v- ABs match is just squabbling amongst the family. It's the Boks we both like to beat.

Having watched a fair part of the Scottish Tests I’m thinking there is nothing there to challenge you this year.

quote: You're just going to ignore it.

Ignore what?

As for the World Cup – in 1999 the minor teams were spread around the regional grounds in England. I recall watching Tonga-Italy at Welford Road. And of course fans can move around Blighty a little easier than flying over the Gibson desert?

Which reminds me – the IRB send in advance teams to black out all existing advertising in a ground – how will that sit with Vodafone, Bundaberg et al?

quote: See? How many times have I told you! Work for yourself!

An awful time to try and do so in IT right now sadly.

quote: Wouldn't he get a fright!

And how would he defend his family recipes then?

quote: I like the cut of this man's jibe, albeit the wrong colour.

And I like the way an accidental mis-spelling changes the entire meaning of a sentence.

quote: Just in case, God forbid, you were tempted not to.

Tempted not to do what?

He’ll get fed up pointing out our faults when he realises there is a queue to do so.

I wonder also if he saw Ben Kay on at least two occasions intercept Jack bound Kiwi ball in the line out. If that’s not working well one will just have to accept it.

quote: your hooker's pretty dodgy throwing.

What can one expect from a Saint? Pick a hooker for his presence around the paddock and what should we expect?

Ask MikeH about what?

	20-06-2003 20:42									#27
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We're going round in circles. Let's sum this up.

We gave away an obscene amount of penalties and had 2 players sin binned.
We couldn't take a good line-out.
We had no imagination going forward.
Wilko's kicking out of hand was poor.
We only had about 40% posession.

Luckily England are such a good team that despite all this the All Blacks still couldn't beat us and could only score a dodgy offside try.

I expect the Aussies hope we play at least that badly against them.

	21-06-2003 05:02									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It’s best to flag them for me.

Yep. Type very, very slowly and preferably with Caps Lock on.

quote: Having watched a fair part of the Scottish Tests I’m thinking there is nothing there to challenge you this year.

Yeah, bummer that.

quote: As for the World Cup – in 1999 the minor teams were spread around the regional grounds in England. I recall watching Tonga-Italy at Welford Road. And of course fans can move around Blighty a little easier than flying over the Gibson desert?

Yep, trip over in Kent, land in Essex.

quote: Which reminds me – the IRB send in advance teams to black out all existing advertising in a ground – how will that sit with Vodafone, Bundaberg et al?

That was the problem that sank the Kiwis sharing the WRC. They wouldn't agree to it. Obviously the ARU sorted it out with the ground advertisers. I'm not sure whether the advertising blackout extends to sponsorship on jerseys.

Speaking of which, what does the O symbol mean on England's jersey? That they're constantly in need of oxygen?

quote: An awful time to try and do so in IT right now sadly.

Ah well, you missed your chance a couple of years ago. You could have retired by now.

quote: And how would he defend his family recipes then?

Much like the French defence against the Pumas, obviously - sloppily.

quote: And I like the way an accidental mis-spelling changes the entire meaning of a sentence.

A stunning pun wasted!

quote: I wonder also if he saw Ben Kay on at least two occasions intercept Jack bound Kiwi ball in the line out. If that’s not working well one will just have to accept it.

Grasping at flaws. (Try to overlook that one! )

quote: What can one expect from a Saint? Pick a hooker for his presence around the paddock and what should we expect?

Who was the hooker before Thompson?

	21-06-2003 05:14									#29
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH We're going round in circles.

Precisely. How do you think we've managed to tot up 4392 posts between us in about 12 months? That's 4392 posts up until the start of this thread. Pathetic, isn't it? The only way we know is circular. Even newcomers to the thread succumb to it. We're sort of the Bermuda Triangle of the OT.

quote: We gave away an obscene amount of penalties and had 2 players sin binned. We couldn't take a good line-out. We had no imagination going forward. Wilko's kicking out of hand was poor. We only had about 40% posession. Luckily England are such a good team that despite all this the All Blacks still couldn't beat us and could only score a dodgy offside try.

All true. The only problem is that Havak - I'm not sure of your view - can't accept that the ABs didn't play well either. Winning while playing at less than best is only an achievement if the opposition plays better. If both teams play badly, the result is fairly meaningless beyond inviting misinterpretations.

quote: I expect the Aussies hope we play at least that badly against them.

Fingers crossed. My honest expectation is a comfy England win. The Wallabies aren't ready yet. Which isn't to say they will be later in the year either. OTOH, the problem with the Wallabies is that they're famous for rising to an occasion and defying odds. Anyway, that aside, logic, to me, says a comfy England win.

	21-06-2003 06:00									#30
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Poor France, obviously Finbar has not left France's bandwagon in spite of his written agreement:

Argentina 33 - France 32



... and a ridiculously lenient referee... especially with the Pumas.