21-06-2003 07:31									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

so that whole thread about capitialism working for the little man was based upon a scam you unwittigly fell into, and you ended up getting suckered to pay people money, and got nothing in return?

props, speer. props.

	21-06-2003 07:38									#32
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No, you get the best set of knives you can buy in return.

	21-06-2003 07:40									#33
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara No, you get the best set of knives you can buy in return.

which he can use to stab somebody and take their money to cover the costs of the knives! full circle!

	21-06-2003 07:47									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX which he can use to stab somebody and take their money to cover the costs of the knives! full circle!

And isn't that what capitalism is all about????



ACK!

	21-06-2003 07:47									#35
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che, given your history with cults thats why i wasnt surprised you supported cutco. as for not making money from people joining, think about the fact you have to buy in to sell. the company itself is making money from people joining. just because joe jack and steve dave arent making money from their friend jim bob joining doesnt mean cutco doesnt profit from jim bob joining.

	21-06-2003 07:49									#36
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Which is why I'd never let that little creep in my apartment to sell me a set of knives I already own.

What ticks me off is I can't buy the knives over the internet. I wonder if anyone has a set for sale on eBay. Hell, I bet that's a great way to sell them. I wish I had eBay back when I was trying to sell knives.

	21-06-2003 07:59									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I wonder if anyone has a set for sale on eBay.

They do. I just checked.

	21-06-2003 08:08									#38
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&category=20640

That's the demonstrator set I purchased way back when. It's all still in use. I think I spent $70 on the set.

	21-06-2003 09:12									#39
	Got spare money?

I lost the sheers somewhere and my steak knife was confiscated by the police after a drug incident. The knife had nothing to do with what was going on, and was there soley for use in our camping trip, but they took it anyway.

MRT144, I am highly anti-cult. If I thought Cutco were up to something cultish, I'd says so. That said, I'll admit that I do have a problem with them selling the product to people they can be reasonably sure aren't going to make good salespeople. It's unethical, but you really aren't worse off for having bought the knives. You get them at a discount and you'll use them your whole life.

In a cult of MLM, you lose money, time, etc. for no real gain (except temporary pschological satisfaction of being part of an "exclusive" group). Amway/Quixtar people creep the **** outta me. Plus the products are overpriced crap. I keep Amway/Quixtar people at arms length, but I wish I knew another Cutco person. I want more knives.

	21-06-2003 09:23									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

so why che is their type of lack of ethics defendable when other corporate lack of ethics not?

	21-06-2003 09:23									#41
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Che, I have a feeling that MRT's post was a little dig at your political persuasion.

Why are people dumping on Albert?

AS, I would've done your letter differently, but it wasn't bad. If you haven't sent it already, edit out the profanity please: it doesn't help your cause.

Just checked - you did send it. Well, it was a minor foul, but if you are going to send it to others, you might want to take my advice.

	21-06-2003 09:35									#42
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 so why che is their type of lack of ethics defendable when other corporate lack of ethics not?

Corporate ethics aren't why I'm opposed to capitalism They just make it easy for people to see that the system is stacked against them. Within the capitalist system, what Cutco does is fair and legit.

	21-06-2003 09:39									#43
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I went to one of these Cut Co things in High School. I never saw so many inexperienced fellow High School students and 44 year old hips like a bus welfare women in one room.

As soon as they brought out the little flip book and the 'unlimited income potential' bit, I knew someone was selling something to me. It's got an Amway/Quixtar atmosphere.

I'm glad I never paid them anything.

	21-06-2003 09:46									#44
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so che, if what they do is fair and legit why do the force sellers to buy the product? surely in other sales positions this is not a requisite for selling the product. its not legitimate to require salespersons to buy the product. imagine a society where everyone has to buy they products they sell...

the only reason why cutco stays in business is because they sell a dream, that a small minority achieve, and then sell large amounts to "salespersons" that will never achieve that.

its a misrepresentation of reality.

	21-06-2003 09:57									#45
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MRT, check the Ebay link I provided, then check others. This product is quality.

	21-06-2003 10:01									#46
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i dont doubt the product is quality. that isnt the point that im contending.

	21-06-2003 10:05									#47
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It's also in demand.

The point I'm contending is that they provide a good product and an opportunity. It's up to you to make something of that opportunity.

	21-06-2003 10:07									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 so che, if what they do is fair and legit why do the force sellers to buy the product? surely in other sales positions this is not a requisite for selling the product. its not legitimate to require salespersons to buy the product. imagine a society where everyone has to buy they products they sell... the only reason why cutco stays in business is because they sell a dream, that a small minority achieve, and then sell large amounts to "salespersons" that will never achieve that. its a misrepresentation of reality.

And this makes it different from other companies how?

Actually, quite a few companies require their sales staff to purchase their product. For example, if you work in certain clothing stores, you are required to wear their products. You get a discount to buy the clothes, but you must buy their clothes.

	21-06-2003 19:41									#49
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quote: You do not make money from people joining.

Actually, chegitz... you do get a percentage of the sales of whoever you bring into the company...

but so now after I quit and ask NBC10 to do an expose, you people start telling me the company is great? what the hell?

	21-06-2003 19:43									#50
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No, they are telling you the knives are great.

	21-06-2003 19:46									#51
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JohnT:

Alright. i already knew that. it's weird how they don't scam the customers but grossly mislead their employees

	21-06-2003 19:48									#52
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MRT trying to make che defend the system.

	21-06-2003 22:03									#53
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Counter revolutionaries must be purged

	21-06-2003 22:59									#54
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Sorry AS, but I didn't read any of this until about five minutes before my first post in this thread. I would have spoken up sooner had I noticed it.

	21-06-2003 23:14									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer JohnT: Alright. i already knew that. it's weird how they don't scam the customers but grossly mislead their employees

and thats the thing that matters most when youre thinking about being employed by a company.

	22-06-2003 03:06									#56
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 so che, if what they do is fair and legit why do the force sellers to buy the product? surely in other sales positions this is not a requisite for selling the product. its not legitimate to require salespersons to buy the product. imagine a society where everyone has to buy they products they sell...

Sellers aren't forced to buy, because.... nobody is forced to be a seller.

quote: the only reason why cutco stays in business is because they sell a dream, that a small minority achieve, and then sell large amounts to "salespersons" that will never achieve that.

Their sales figures say otherwise - if they're doing 250 million a year, they'd have to have close to a quarter million on up to a million sales force (each year).

The SCAmway cult is another story - among a myriad of greaseball practices, they harp on "negative products" (i.e. other brands of anything SCAmway makes, no matter how much quality or feature difference). Since SCAmway makes primarily consumable products (unlike Cutco), they push their distributors to constantly by SCAmway products all the time to replace their use of these so-called "negative products."

A big portion of the early cult-push on new members is harping about how keeping these "negative products" around subverts your "success," since you obviously can't believe in the product line if you don't use it. So "THROW 'EM OUT" blahblahblah.

Further up the cult, the SCAmway line is to tell midlevel distributors they can become "direct" distributors (the beginning of the major league pyramid) by simply enforcing the cult message about "negative products" and convincing their MLM downline to buy X amount of products per month.

That's a markedly different approach from what Cutco is doing with one-off sales of demonstrator sets.

quote: its a misrepresentation of reality.

It's taking liberties with reality and skirting fraud laws, but to actually skirt the fraud laws, there has to be fine print and disclaimers in there. If people were taught common sense in schools, they'd be a lot better equipped to see BS for what it is, and not get roped in on pie-in-the-sky promises on commission marketing jobs.

	22-06-2003 03:10									#57
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i think they are lying about their sales. and they are an unethical company.

	22-06-2003 09:06									#58
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i think they are lying about their sales. and they are an unethical company.

It's a division of Oneida cutlery, which is owned by Alcoa, IIRC.

	22-06-2003 09:11									#59
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Chegitz:

Actually, the sites that Boris put up on the other thread show clearly that Vector/Cutco/Alcas broke away from Alcoa decades ago and are no longer associated with Alcoa.

	22-06-2003 09:33									#60
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Alcas, Alcoa, it's been 13 years. Like I'm gonna remember names all that well.