21-06-2003 20:22									#1
	Why is Diversity Deemed to be A Good Thing? Full PM-box? Change here!

The main argument I've seen is that when people of different genetic stocks breed, genetic illnesses, diseases and afflictions tend to be removed.

So, by allowing diversity in a nation, the policy implies that the quality of that nation's genetic stock will be maximised, creating a Master Race.

If that is the ultimate aim of diversity, to obtain a Master Race, how can those favouring immigration/diversity criticise other countries for wanting to keep - in their opinion - racially and ethnically pure. In their opinion, a similar ethnic stock might be the idea of top quality ethnic stock.

So the above discounts that theory of diversity.

Next are its downfalls. The vast majority of social problems in Western nations are due to the immigration of immigration and the lack of social cohesiveness that arises.

Indeed, many European states with their generous welfare reforms only work so well in some countries because it is a community. Everyone is the same colour. Everyone is dervied from the same/similar ancestors. Thus they are willing to help each other out at times at need. In a way, this is like the passing on of your genes, but in a macro sense.

Diversity offers no real benefits, and plenty of problems.

	21-06-2003 20:30									#2
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I don't believe it holds any benefits per se, but I don't think it's fair to discriminate based on a person's ethnicity.

	21-06-2003 20:54									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's The main argument I've seen is that when people of different genetic stocks breed, genetic illnesses, diseases and afflictions tend to be removed.

Correlation; inbreeding causes birth defects. So non-diversity is definitely a BAD thing.

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So, by allowing diversity in a nation, the policy implies that the quality of that nation's genetic stock will be maximised, creating a Master Race.

No, it just helps stop us degenerating into a bunch of right wing morons with 2 heads and 12 fingers.

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's If that is the ultimate aim of diversity, to obtain a Master Race, how can those favouring immigration/diversity criticise other countries for wanting to keep - in their opinion - racially and ethnically pure. In their opinion, a similar ethnic stock might be the idea of top quality ethnic stock.

Yes, but think along Darwin's lines. The fittest for any one environment flourish - the others do not. Having one basic type of human being is putting all your eggs in one basket, isn't it?

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So the above discounts that theory of diversity.

My arse it does.

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Next are its downfalls. The vast majority of social problems in Western nations are due to the immigration of immigration and the lack of social cohesiveness that arises.

I see. So the rest of history is a complete waste of time, and the fact that the rich countries have been exploiting the poor for so long is of no consequence. Crime is of no consequence. Social pressure caused by economic pressure is of no consequence. It's all down to the immigrants according to you.

You are a blind, simplistic fool.

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Indeed, many European states with their generous welfare reforms only work so well in some countries because it is a community. Everyone is the same colour. Everyone is dervied from the same/similar ancestors. Thus they are willing to help each other out at times at need. In a way, this is like the passing on of your genes, but in a macro sense. Diversity offers no real benefits, and plenty of problems.

Great. How are we going to pay pensions without immigration?

Who is going to pay for YOU when you are an old fart?

No answers from the BNP there.

Move to Austria Bods.

	21-06-2003 20:55									#4
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It worries me that you people don't care about yourself dying off.

	21-06-2003 21:03									#5
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quote: Correlation; inbreeding causes birth defects. So non-diversity is definitely a BAD thing.

Who is the considering whether something is a birth defect or not? To some nations, darker skin could be seen as more of a birth defect than having six fingers per hand, for example.

quote: Great. How are we going to pay pensions without immigration?

By taking advantage of the demographic dividend we enjoy in such periods as between around 1963 and 1990 by having larger budget surplusses and smaller deficits in those period to pay for pensions in the future.

	21-06-2003 21:07									#6
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The lack of social cohesiveness is not because of the different ethncities, but because of different cultures.

	21-06-2003 21:09									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I don't believe it holds any benefits per se, but I don't think it's fair to discriminate based on a person's ethnicity.

Studies have shown that teams and groups that are heterogeneous are more productive and create higher quality solutions than homogeneous ones.

	21-06-2003 21:10									#8
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And how are you separating ethnicities and cultures? Different ones of those are found together.

	21-06-2003 21:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Who is the considering whether something is a birth defect or not? To some nations, darker skin could be seen as more of a birth defect than having six fingers per hand, for example.

Tell me that when you're dying of skin cancer.

quote: Originally posted by Boddington's By taking advantage of the demographic dividend we enjoy in such periods as between around 1963 and 1990 by having larger budget surplusses and smaller deficits in those period to pay for pensions in the future.

We've had it, seen it, and spent it. Now find a real answer rather than saying "oh, we COULD have done things different".

	21-06-2003 21:11									#10
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quote: Studies have shown that teams and groups that are heterogeneous are more productive and create higher quality solutions than homogeneous ones.

Show me these.

	21-06-2003 21:14									#11
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quote: Studies have shown that teams and groups that are heterogeneous are more productive and create higher quality solutions than homogeneous ones.

Different in ways of thinking. Not in colour of skin, religion, music they listen to, etc.

quote: And how are you separating ethnicities and cultures? Different ones of those are found together.

Example given: Fez is, ethnically, a North African. however, culturally, he's not.

	21-06-2003 21:16									#12
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quote: Tell me that when you're dying of skin cancer.

Reverse the example. Who is the considering whether something is a birth defect or not? To some nations, lighter skin could be seen as more of a birth defect than having six fingers per hand, for example.

Hence no "diversity".

quote: Now find a real answer rather than saying "oh, we COULD have done things different".

We need to learn from history. But OK..

i) Longer working lives
ii) More saving (spend less now in prep for retirement)
iii) Divert government funds from other sectors to pay for it, ie privatise NHS
iv) Increase birth rate of native population

	21-06-2003 21:18									#13
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quote: The lack of social cohesiveness is not because of the different ethncities, but because of different cultures.

quote: Example given: Fez is, ethnically, a North African. however, culturally, he's not.

So are we reaching the conclusion that diversity of ethnicities is no bad thing, but diversity of cultures is?

	21-06-2003 21:20									#14
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That has always been my opinion. Also, there are cultures that are better and/or worse. There are also cultures that are roughly equal.

	21-06-2003 21:28									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Also, there are cultures that are better and/or worse.

In your opinion.

	21-06-2003 21:32									#16
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Well, look, I am a utilitarian, so yes, obviously.

I think there are things that are more ethical, and less ethical than others. If you don't, then it's your loss.

	21-06-2003 21:34									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's And how are you separating ethnicities and cultures? Different ones of those are found together.

same ethnic group can have different culture.

Just look at white protestant hick VS white protestant new yorker.

	21-06-2003 21:37									#18
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thanks, Zero.

	21-06-2003 21:38									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Who is the considering whether something is a birth defect or not?

Usually a "defect" is considered a trait that is unseen in majority of population that affects individuals chance of survival or sexual selection. Six fingers would be considered a defect because it affects individuals appearance.

Its really a relative matter.

	21-06-2003 21:38									#20
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I was planning on posting something nice, positive and witty (like "Without ethic diversity we would never have curry chips!") until I read

quote: Originally posted by Azazel It worries me that you people don't care about yourself dying off.

That statement reminds me of our old friend Joe who used to post amazingly anti Semitic & homophobic posts here. IMHO, it is the most racist thing I've read in OT in years.

What the **** do you mean by "you people" ??? Were all your ancestors from the same small village somewhere ? Are you saying that if someone marries from outside "their people" then "their people" will somehow be come impure and die off ? What about their children - will they just be a mongrel race ?

Individuals should be allowed to decide which cultural traits they will embrace or ignore. The more cultures they are exposed to, the more variety they can choose from & enjoy. A monocultural society, one where the state has decided "This is what it means to be a true German" or "This is what it means to be a patriotic American" are doing their citizens a great disservice for the sake of cohesion.

	21-06-2003 21:41									#21
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i actually agree with the cultures thing 'if you come to live in england, be english, otherwise f*ck off' would sum up my position

	21-06-2003 21:42									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel That has always been my opinion. Also, there are cultures that are better and/or worse. There are also cultures that are roughly equal.

just curious, how do you weigh the superiority/inferirority on each culture?

morality? efficiency? anti-semitism? (based on how close it is to ur native culture) etc... I personally base it on efficiency, which is why so many ppl mite have trouble with the ethics on my view..

	21-06-2003 21:46									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So are we reaching the conclusion that diversity of ethnicities is no bad thing, but diversity of cultures is?

that sounds almost true. Usually when cultures between two become merged/assimilated/similar so well, the ethnic barrier becomes very transparent.

	21-06-2003 21:47									#24
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Diversity (genetic and cultural) is incredibly important. Which is why we need to put a stop to immigration NOW!

	21-06-2003 21:50									#25
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quote: Originally posted by August Borms Diversity (genetic and cultural) is incredibly important. Which is why we need to put a stop to immigration NOW!

That could be taken very seriously actually.. ever noticed if u mix colors, eventually they all turn brown? If folks immigrate and we all cross-breed... we wont have any varieties and will all turn brown!

	21-06-2003 21:51									#26
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Glad to break your mood.

quote: What the **** do you mean by "you people" ??? Were all your ancestors from the same small village somewhere ? Are you saying that if someone marries from outside "their people" then "their people" will somehow be come impure and die off ? What about their children - will they just be a mongrel race ?

Yes, that's what I meant. *sigh*

Read some more of my posts around, before you begin slinging mud my direction, and calling me a racist. What I meant is that population of Europe is declining, and it's culture is dissappearing.

quote: Individuals should be allowed to decide which cultural traits they will embrace or ignore. The more cultures they are exposed to, the more variety they can choose from & enjoy. A monocultural society, one where the state has decided "This is what it means to be a true German" or "This is what it means to be a patriotic American" are doing their citizens a great disservice for the sake of cohesion.

Very cute, yet completely castrating the meaning of the world "culture" into what food you eat and what music you listen to.

	21-06-2003 21:53									#27
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quote: Diversity (genetic and cultural) is incredibly important. Which is why we need to put a stop to immigration NOW!

With liberal immigration, in the short-term the infusion of new cultures might lead to greater diversity. In the long-run however, all cultures will mish-mash into the same generic, bland mix.

Is immigration thus stealing diversity from future generations for our own selfish ends?

	21-06-2003 21:54									#28
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quote: just curious, how do you weigh the superiority/inferirority on each culture? morality? efficiency? anti-semitism? (based on how close it is to ur native culture) etc... I personally base it on efficiency, which is why so many ppl mite have trouble with the ethics on my view..

I believe that culture, the entire framework of accepted human interactions, can be more ethical, or less so. I believe that the culture that is the most utulitarian is the most ethical, since my ethics are utilitarian.

	21-06-2003 21:55									#29
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Interesting sidenote:

I did a self-evaluation at work recently, and one of the sections was a section on Diversity in the Workplace, and how I manage it. I thought for a minute, then X'd it out and put a big N/A over the whole section. When my boss and I went over everything, I told him that I thought emphasizing diversity in the workplace was "PC silliness", and that it had absolutely nothing to do with my job, or anyone's job performance.

	21-06-2003 22:08									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: just curious, how do you weigh the superiority/inferirority on each culture? morality? efficiency? anti-semitism? (based on how close it is to ur native culture) etc... I personally base it on efficiency, which is why so many ppl mite have trouble with the ethics on my view.. I believe that culture, the entire framework of accepted human interactions, can be more ethical, or less so. I believe that the culture that is the most utulitarian is the most ethical, since my ethics are utilitarian.

very well. I was gonna ask then what is the ethics you base on, but you already defined it. U're way ahead of me

But if it is utalitaria, what would you say to kamikaze bombers? aren't they doing something thats utalitarian for their culture? Does that make them more superior to other culture?