07-02-2005 03:23									#31
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I must say, I find the CoD city really badly placed. It doesn't seem to fit any sensible pattern I can imagine. Perhaps I'm just missing something.

Number one, with the CoD city left alone. Either we lose many sea tiles, or we need to ICS heavily, which will make the cities very small by default. This is the variant with fewer cities, but less sea tiles worked.

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	07-02-2005 03:25									#32
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Number two, giving the CoD city the boot. The problem here is, nobody can say if they'd agree...

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	08-02-2005 09:22									#33
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That looks similar to what I had in mind, though I'd move the site 111114 from SP to 1111114 (simply southwest one tile). We may also want to put one 23 of the wheat, to take full advantage of the lake.

	08-02-2005 13:49									#34
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I see what you mean. I didn't plan cities farther south, as they are too close to the Tundra, and there's still some Monkey things there.

As to the specific spot north-west, I just can't watch cities being put directly in the other's city radius. While putting cities close is definately powerful, I think taking away tiles in that way just harms the civ long-term. It's different in the REX, where speed counts a lot, but we're past the REX phase by now.

A lake seems nice, but with low food, it wouldn't help much. And with cities that close, they'd hardly reach 6 population. I'd rather leave the Grassland alone, and put a city near it on the Tundra, and another one on the Hill to the east.

	09-02-2005 14:19									#35
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I'm not sure we're losing a tile on the NW city, though, since we're basically shifting some overlap. My thought was that it gives the city on the plains to the east a little more room.

On the lake, you're going the entirely wrong direction rom what I meant. I was thinking inland canal for naval purposes, but now that I look at it again, I simply overlooked the fact that the city 4 of the lake will border the same coastal tiles, so it's not really necessary.

	09-02-2005 15:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi I'm not sure we're losing a tile on the NW city, though, since we're basically shifting some overlap. My thought was that it gives the city on the plains to the east a little more room.

If you put one city inside the city radius of another, you're always losing 1 tile for both of the cities, so 2 tiles total. This is not worth the gain of 1 tile for 1 city. But, what I didn't consider here, are the sea tiles gained. This might be a tied situation then.

	09-02-2005 17:49									#37
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Those sites look good, with the possible exception of the two most southern ones. Further Monkey eradication and land clearing may reveal better usage.

Even more important than city planning is our foreign affairs - if we don't start talking to CoD about post-war arrangements now, then may just assume we're not interested and start rexing down there.

We have to take the initiative. We can start the dialogue by letting them know we're moving a worker stack down south to prepare land for "our new southern province". :-)

	09-02-2005 18:08									#38
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quote: Originally posted by dejon We have to take the initiative. We can start the dialogue by letting them know we're moving a worker stack down south to prepare land for "our new southern province". :-)

Good idea.

I asked about the city plan, so we have even more to show our interest.

	10-02-2005 08:46									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 If you put one city inside the city radius of another, you're always losing 1 tile for both of the cities, so 2 tiles total. This is not worth the gain of 1 tile for 1 city. But, what I didn't consider here, are the sea tiles gained. This might be a tied situation then.

We're saying the same thing. I was just thinking in net terms to begin with.

	10-02-2005 08:48									#40
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Even more important than city planning is our foreign affairs - if we don't start talking to CoD about post-war arrangements now, then may just assume we're not interested and start rexing down there.

Not that taking the initiative isn't the thing to do, but bear in mind that we worked out the basic framework of the post-war arrangement beforehand, with us taking over the Monkey lands, and in exchange allowing CoD to have the southwestern peninsula to themselves.

	10-02-2005 13:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Not that taking the initiative isn't the thing to do, but bear in mind that we worked out the basic framework of the post-war arrangement beforehand, with us taking over the Monkey lands, and in exchange allowing CoD to have the southwestern peninsula to themselves.

So I guess we should start talking, basing on this agreement. Can one of you guys take this over? I wasn't there when it happened, so it's like talking of ancient history to me.

If we do get Monkey lands by a previous agreement, then we're set. All we have to deal with in that case, is that CoD city, and it's possible disposal.

As to the planned cities, the ones close to Siege Perilous ar easiest to determine, so mayabe we should send Settlers there immediately? We can work out details for more cities, when Settlers arrive.

	15-02-2005 22:32									#42
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I'll send Arrian, or whoever we're dealing with from CoD these days, a PM simply informing our allies that we plan to begin repopulating the Monkey land soon, per our pre-war agreement, and asking if they feel it's still dangerous.

	17-02-2005 09:48									#43
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I'd just add that we should start the repopulation slowly - though they aren't the most attractive sites, keep the first few cities close to Siege Perilous, and get them hooked up to road asap. Perhaps I'm being irrational, but we should be prepared in case the Monkeys pull something out of their collective sleeve.

	17-02-2005 13:10									#44
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Yes, that sounds reasonable. Anyway, we have only those 3 Settlers ready, and it will take time to make and bring more.

	17-02-2005 20:16									#45
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Good point, though one I had been just assuming we'd adhere to.

	14-03-2005 15:41									#46
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The cities are looking good, the war with Monkey seems to be over, and we will probably lose fewer units, than anticipated. Once the army is redistributed back home, we should have an abundance of units.

In general, I think we can risk going for a wonder. There are many coming up, and snagging one might be possible. Do you guys think it possible to get this done? Do you think we can commit to such an effort? If yes, do we tell CoD about it?

	15-03-2005 10:58									#47
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We could go for a wonder, I bet, given that we've not really got a whole lot to build at this point - Sun Tzu and Leonardo's look good. Of course, my opinion is that keeping CoD in the loop is important - we should be close allies both in and out of war.

	20-03-2005 21:24									#48
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City planning again. Our Settlers in the south are close to possible target sites. Here is the "empty" land. Please, take a look and give some suggestions (post an edited image, if you can).

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	25-03-2005 19:50									#49
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Agree with you both on the wonder, and with Octavian on keeping CoD in the loop. I'll get the city plan started by throwing this out there. I freely admit not having thought it all the way through, but rather starting with what Modo and I discussed before, and trying to get the coastal tiles covered along the tundra.

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	25-03-2005 20:15									#50
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Looks pretty good to me. As the Tundra cities will have little land used due to low food, we might consider some fillers inland later on. If the game lasts long enough, I mean.

Do we turn one Settler around (again ) to claim Ivory in the south (Road is being made already), or do we concentrate all 3 Settlers on a new "core"?

	25-03-2005 21:10									#51
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I would lean to sending a worker down to colonize some ivory for the time being, and going ahead and settling the core. Once we have a few cities established, we can divert a settler down there. We definitely need to get some flowing in pretty soon, either way.

	25-03-2005 22:43									#52
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Good idea about the Colony.

Currently only Castle Anthrax is making Settlers and the first of them will go to fill the spot at Witch Village 233 (see here for the agreement with CoD). Perhaps we should think about pumping some out of a second city (say Tim's Peak)?

	25-03-2005 23:37									#53
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We should have plenty of idle units to protect it, as well. Speaking of, with the, erm, limited fighting of this war, we may want to keep a few units in the tundra to begin barb-farming once we get Whale Song taken care of. I forget what the settings are, but we ought to be able to stumble on a couple of camps, and having an elite or two may or may not come in handy in the future, but won't cost us anything (I don't think).

Btw, I can't find my PTW disc, and therefore can't open the saves, so if I say something that just doesn't fit the situation, let me know.

I saw the WV233 discussion, and sending the first settler there does seem like the more pressing priority. With 19 or so spots to fill, we definitely need another settler city going.

	28-03-2005 15:07									#54
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Ok, first two cities down south will be there next turn.

Good news concerning wonder builds. LL switched their Sistine's to Great Wall, taking one near-obsolete wonder out of the loop and putting a useful one back in.

CoD asked if we are researching anything. We are not, but I still thought about checking the possibilities. The pic below shows our current abilities, if running a small surpulus. Note that we could put 3-4 additional Libraries into build queues right now, if we decide to do it. Also, we should be careful about trading with Tabemono (i.e. paying them for research), because they are currently growing very powerful. With just us and CoD, fuelling the other's research might not be a clever choice. Question: Do we switch to Libraries, or do we keep making Markets while looking for a research partner?

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Last edited by Modo44 on 29-03-2005 at 14:28

	29-03-2005 09:19									#55
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At some point soon, even assuming our alliance with CoD holds strong, we're going to need full bore research from both in order to keep up. I'm in favor of slipping in some libraries.

	29-03-2005 18:40									#56
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How about just half of them Libraries? Marketplaces are just so much more powerful over time.

	29-03-2005 20:31									#57
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Camelot could simply switch to Library, as it will not need the Cathedral yet due to War Happiness.

	09-04-2005 01:27									#58
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Alright, Libraries we will have. Two cities switched already, one new Librry started and one soon to be started. That will be four and in the core, so pretty powerful.

Question: Do we start rushing basic infrastructure in the planned FP city? If so, in what order? A Courthouse would help later, as the city grows. A Granary will be important in any case. Some happiness too if needed, and an Aqueduct, of course.

Question: Did we have the GA yet? I saw no indication of it, so I better ask...

	09-04-2005 01:59									#59
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1. I think so. We get that one city up and running good, and the rest of the second core will be able to develop fairly easily, so I'm ni favor of concentrating our rush efforts on the FP city.

2. I don't think so. Monkey hasn't engaged any of our musketeers, IIRC.

	09-04-2005 02:25									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi 1. I think so. We get that one city up and running good, and the rest of the second core will be able to develop fairly easily, so I'm ni favor of concentrating our rush efforts on the FP city.

Cool. I would suggest Granary (growth), then Courthouse (to see when any production besides the 1 free Shield comes up), then as needed (Aqueduct, Market and/or Temple). We might actually make some Workers after Granary and Courthouse because the other buildings will not be important so early.

quote: Originally posted by Solomwi 2. I don't think so. Monkey hasn't engaged any of our musketeers, IIRC.

That is so wrong. Well, at least we might be getting the chance to start it soon. As to Musketeers, I would even go as far as attacking with them.

Our core is small, but the land is very good, so we should be able to make it super productive using a GA (build high instead of wide, so to speak). Plus, there is the increased chance of getting one useful wonder. Also, additional cash would allow us to seriously (re)join research efforts.