22-06-2003 01:25									#1
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Here's my plan:

We build in Camelot Warrior, Warrior, Settler, Granary. First warrior can be ready 3600BC (goes exploring), second warrior 3450BC (guards city), our first settler will be ready 3150BC. Note, that according to my plan, Camelot is at this point at size 2 and quite productive. After this Camelot starts a granary to save the wheat our peasants harvest. Pottery can be ready in time if we research at 100%.

I know, that the warriors get ready a bit late (I'm favoring growth over production), but I don't expect barbarians in the 3000's BC and other teams can't attack us yet, because they don't have warriors either, and those who have scouts, well... scouts can't attack, so .

The second city will focus on Warriors to explore and to protect the cities. It may get a barracks after a while. Each city should have 2 Warriors as guards. That is better than 1 Spearman. It provides about the same defense, protects against a lucky shot (a warrior could beat a spear in 1 turn, but not 2 warriors!) and fully uses the MP allowance for Despotism, raising the # of content citizens to 4.

If our proud Knighthood ratifies this plan, I will post a detailed layout.

	22-06-2003 01:56									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

This sounds like an excellent plan. I think in PBEM games in this team format, early growth is key. We won't be able to march into our opponent's territories and take their cities at whim as one would do for an AI. As I think wars in the PTWDG have proved (think GS vs. Vox), because your opponent also thinks and knows how to utilize all aspects of the game, as well as human communication with other civilizations, growth early will ensure we have all the cities we need.

Also, your warrior defense plan - I've never thought about it that way before. Again, it sounds like a great idea.

	22-06-2003 02:05									#3
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I like it.

I've used this approach before with great success - one early city dedicated to units (pausing only for a well timed barracks), while the other cities concentrate on growth, settlers, and any improvements that will help REX (granaries, sometimes temples)

	22-06-2003 03:11									#4
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Here's the plan, in detail.

For convenience I use the numbers of the numeric keypad to describe directions. This makes 8 for north, 3 for southeast, 4 for west and so on. 148 would be a complex move along a road, SW-W-N. You get it.

4000BC:
- Settler moves 3
- Worker starts irrigating

3950BC:
- Settler founds Camelot
- Laborer in Camelot works on the wheat (not the bonus grassland as by default!)
- Research set to Pottery
- Science slider to 100%

3900BC:
- Worker starts road

3850BC:
- Nothing to do

3800BC:
- Worker moves 6 (on the bonus grassland across the river)

3750BC:
- Worker starts mining

3700BC:
- Camelot grows to size 2
- Laborers on the wheat and the river bonus grassland (as by default)

3650BC:
- Nothing to do

3600BC:
- Camelot builds Warrior and starts another one. We need a name for this Warrior.
- Warrior goes exploring. Here begins your part, Darekill. I'd point at the hills. What we need to explore first is our 2nd city site!
- Worker starts road

3550BC:
- Nothing to do (except exploring)

3500BC:
- Worker moves 1 (in the city)
- Pottery next turn. Adjust science slider to max out money. Should be 70%.

3450BC:
- We discover Pottery. What to research next? I'd say Bronze Working
- Camelot grows to size 3, builds Warrior (name?) and starts Settler
- Laborers in Camelot on the wheat, the mined grassland and one unmined grassland (Camelot-1). Thanks Dave for the correction.
- Warrior fortifies in Camelot.
- Set science slider back to 100%
- Worker moves 1

3400BC:
- Worker starts mining

3350BC:
- Nothing to do (except exploring)

3300BC:
- Nothing to do (except exploring)

3250BC:
- Worker starts road

3200BC:
- Camelot grows to size 4
- Rearrange laborers in Camelot to the wheat, the two mined bonus grasslands and one unmined bonus grassland
- Set the luxury slider to 10% (Unless the game remains at Chieftain)

3150BC:
- Camelot builds Settler and shrinks to size 2. Starts Granary
- Laborers at the wheat and the mined grassland by the river
- Set the luxury slider back to 0%
- Worker moves 7
- Settler moves ? (where ever we decide to build the 2nd city)

Last edited by Sir Ralph on 22-06-2003 at 12:24

	22-06-2003 08:51									#5
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Excellent start, Sir Ralph!

There's not too much to decide in the short term, other than unit names.

	22-06-2003 09:19									#6
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Hi everyone!

I think Sir Ralph's plan to 3150BC is great.

But I disagree with building a granary then. We 'lost' a few turns of exploring because our warrior was built so late. We should build 2 or 3 more warriors to explore before starting the granary.

	22-06-2003 09:33									#7
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Welcome to the team, Dave!

I respectfully disagree - In the short term, I think this exploration is unneeded. Growth in Camelot should be priority

	22-06-2003 09:57									#8
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Sir Ralphs plan find my support.
I'll take care about the Names of our soldiers and the direction in wich they will explor. Don't worry i'll make this in a very democratic manner so everyone is needed in the process.
Right now groth and gaining ground in time is more important then exploring. We can't beat the exponsionists in that aspect anyway.

	22-06-2003 10:38									#9
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I'm not done arguing for explorers, but I will wait until we build our city and see all the tiles.

Sir Ralph - I noticed you are working the forest from 3450BC to 3250BC?

That gives...

3450BC: Population-3.0 Shields-0
3400BC: P-3.15 S-5
3350BC: P-3.30 S-10
3300BC: P-3.45 S-15
3250BC: P-3.60 S-20
3200BC: P-3.8 S-25
3150BC: P-2.0 S-0 (Settler)

If you move the citizen on the forest to the shielded grassland being mined, you get...

3450BC: P-3.0 S-0
3400BC: P-3.2 S-4
3350BC: P-3.4 S-8
3300BC: P-3.6 S-13
3250BC: P-3.8 S-18
3200BC: P-4.0 S-23
3150BC: P-2.2 S-0 (Settler)

... for 4 more food with the settler built in the same time!

Last edited by DaveMcW on 22-06-2003 at 10:59

	22-06-2003 12:17									#10
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I played Daves advice in my scenario, and there is a little flaw in it, because we can start to mine only 3450. But he is right nevertheless. We'd need the luxury slider for 1 turn, though, but this is normal for growth driven openings like this.

I will work Dave's modifications in the main plan.

	23-06-2003 02:51									#11
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The way things are looking at the moment, I'd hold off on working too hard on the plan. We'll likely restart since this game is currently set to the Chieftan level.

	23-07-2003 05:46									#12
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I want soldiers! I will cut the beating hearts from the chests of our enemies! whats that you say? I dont have legs or arms? How dare you doubt my bravery! bend down here and I'll chew your ears to pieces! running away, eh!? come back here and I'll bite your legs off!!!
COWARD!!!....

Last edited by LzPrst on 23-07-2003 at 05:57

	26-07-2003 02:21									#13
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Orders after 3150BC:

3100 BC:
- Camelot changes to Warrior, laborers unchanged
- Worker mines
- Settler goes 1

3050 BC:
- Camelots laborers change to 2 mined bonus grasslands
- Settler founds Castle Aaauuuggghhh (CA)
- CA works on the wheat, starts Warrior

3000 BC:
- Camelot builds Warrior, starts another one (works 2 mined bonus grasslands)

2950 BC:
- Worker builds road

2900 BC:
- Camelot builds Warrior, starts Granary (works 2 mined bonus grasslands)

2850 BC:
- Worker moves 2

2800 BC:
- Camelot grows to size 3
- CA grows to size 2
- CA laborers to 1 mined bonus grassland and 1 unmined bonus grassland
- Camelot laborers to the wheat and 2 mined bonus grasslands
- Worker mines

2750 BC:
- CA builds warrior. Continues to build 3-turn warriors from now on, working in this roster: 2 mined BG/1 mined BG, 1 lake/1 mined BG, 1 lake

Later:
- The worker roads after mining, then goes 848 and mines+roads the BG 8 of CA.
- The granary in C is ready 2470.

	26-07-2003 03:18									#14
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Thank you for granting my request, O great Domestic Minister!

Once LzPrst and I have some warriors to play with we can degenerate to contradicting each others' move orders.

	23-10-2004 10:29									#15
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Uhm, *bump*?

I was wondering, what a new player has to do, to get involved in decision making arounf here? I know I can lurk, but that's sorta not my thing in the long run.

Now, if you don't mind, it's 7:30 and I really have important business to attend to. Back to sleep.

Last edited by Modo44 on 23-10-2004 at 13:01

	30-10-2004 08:02									#16
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To respond:

Anything you want to volunteer to do.

That's just the way things have worked out here. If you want to do it, and no one objects, go ahead.

	30-10-2004 11:07									#17
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Well, if the government isn't organised... Wait, what am I talking 'bout, of fourse it isn't.

I'd like to mess with some cities if I may, but to do that I'd first have to take a look at the save, without modifying it. I wouldn't want to take any important ones by mistake, would I?

My addy: ansaw TA poczta TOD onet TOD pl

	31-10-2004 08:09									#18
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Done.

Any help is appreciated, given my own haphazard style. Basically, Camelot and the cities forming the first ring around it are devoted to unit turnout (except for Castle Anthrax (iirc), which is a worker factory). The second ring around that are devoted to various projects, from improvments to unit production (where feasible). Scientific research is all conducted by a single scientist in the city of Siege Perilous.

	31-10-2004 09:49									#19
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Thanks for the save.



I mean... erm... a little underdeveloped, the cities. And a huge army that cost's zillions of gold coins beacause we're in Republic. If it isn't reduced soon (lucky we're at war already ), we're doomed.
Please excuse me, while I ponder on the facts.

I think I know what we really need right now. Start a couple wonders.


Great piece of nonsense.

	31-10-2004 14:20									#20
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I'd like to mess with the save a little and then send it back to others, for troop movement and such. But the game seems to think I'm done with the turn when I try to save. Is there a way around it?


In case there is no way to do that and one person has to play all the moves, here's what I'd do:

Castle Anthrax switched from Worker to Settler. We have enough workers already and the land looks pretty much done. Also, there's space for one city ine the north-western part of the country and at least two others in the north-easter part. With a Harbor and a Temple they should give us some much needed cash (plant forests for production). Other improvements only when necessary. Most important matter to decide: the names of the future settlements.

Camelot has space to grow, so it switched from Longbowman to Temple, then can go back to units. It is our capital, so I really hurt my head when I realized how much taxes and science beakers were lost by not developing it.

Witch Village switched from Temple to Harbor as it will soon be needed to grow the city. And citizens moved from Coastal square to Grassland. Or was the Temple for culture?

Monkey Prison Camp switched from Worker to Harbor. Workers are plenty and growth isn't.

Roaded and started mining the Grassland near Monkey Prison Camp. Two workers went north to build a road on the Game. That city will have decent production one day. With the monkeys as slaves, of course.


Message to Deadly Rabbits taking on the Monkeys: Bring MGLs back home. We need some badly.

Last edited by Modo44 on 01-11-2004 at 04:32

	31-10-2004 15:16									#21
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ahhh the party will continue

	01-11-2004 03:16									#22
	Got spare money?

Let's see...

You can only save a PBEM game once, as far as I know, and that's when you're about to send it off to the next player. Sorry.

I just got a message from Arrian informing me that CoD is ready to march back to war. We'll join them when they leave, 280 A.D. That message, by the way, will soon be recorded in the FA thread.

Castle Anthrax is still doing workers since I saw no reasonable new place for settlers. It's not a bad idea to switch, though. Now that I think about it, we do have an army of lumberjack/workers to plant some new tundra forests.

Camelot, for many years, was the Monty Python Settler Factory. It was never improved because it was never over size 3 due to constant settler-building. When settlers were deemed useless, it built barracks and went right into military production with the rest of the cities. With the invasion about to begin again anyway, a new temple won't hurt.

Witch village is building a temple for culture. That was the former program for all the second ring cities: since they weren't up to scratch for decent unit building, they built improvements instead - this is why Tim's Peak, Cheateau de Loimbard, and others have temples, though the inner cities don't. It's still not useful for building units, so culture takes a bit of presedence.

Monkey Prison Camp wasn't building a harbor for a second reason: it's useless for ship production and, at the moment, trade (we don't have astronomy, so trade can't be established with the other continent). Perhaps another temple for cultre is better...

Thanks for the suggestions, and please, keep posting about this stuff!

And, in the Save Game Comments thread in the main fourm, go ahead and ask Team Sunshine to send you a copy of the save whenever the rest of us get it.

	01-11-2004 03:46									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Castle Anthrax is still doing workers since I saw no reasonable new place for settlers. It's not a bad idea to switch, though. Now that I think about it, we do have an army of lumberjack/workers to plant some new tundra forests.

Recipe for a tax/science factory: Put a city on the shore. Build a Harbor and a Temple (only if you have to move borders). Let it grow and watch the cash growing with it. With mines and/or forests these cheap improvements should be easy to build. Even with corruption issues (Corthouses are too expensive to get them in quickly), such cities should start making cash soon. We have room for 3 of such cities in our northern lands - one west and two east. Make sure they cover as many coastal and sea squares as possible.

quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Monkey Prison Camp wasn't building a harbor for a second reason: it's useless for ship production and, at the moment, trade (we don't have astronomy, so trade can't be established with the other continent). Perhaps another temple for cultre is better...

Harbor is for growth. We have many core cities not up to full possible population. Our coastal cities work land tiles instead of making cash out of the water - because they can't grow. Baaad practise.

quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Camelot, for many years, was the Monty Python Settler Factory. It was never improved because it was never over size 3 due to constant settler-building. When settlers were deemed useless, it built barracks and went right into military production with the rest of the cities. With the invasion about to begin again anyway, a new temple won't hurt.

I see. But now it should really start some buildings. That's a lot of cash we're loosing (By not making it, because not making something you could make is loosing it. Sort of.) each turn.

That was the builder in me speaking. And I made him shut up, before he even got started, believe me.

	04-11-2004 12:15									#24
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I got the save and I really don't understand some things. Again.

Why are our Workers developing Mountains in places we have no food to actually work the Mountains? I mean the Mountain near Port Avalon? At the same time the city of Sexy Lumberjacks is still making a Worker, while it could be growing and have those beautiful Hills developed fast. There is food for this city, so it could have decent production very soon. But nooo, we must do the Mountain boogie. Doh.

And why not make those Settlers in Castle Anthrax and put those 3 cities down so that they can start developing? That's pure cash to be had, even if a small amount at the beginning. They don't have to be productive, we just want the cash from the sea.

Let me repeat my self, loudly. We have enough workers.

Please, somebody else take a look at the save and speak up.

	04-11-2004 12:44									#25
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indeed
we do have enough workers

	05-11-2004 09:50									#26
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The Castle Anthrax settlers are part of our military deployment in the south - basically, they'll either be used are part of the offensive operation against the Monkeys, or to resettle the land when we've taken it. That, or they'll be used as sacrafices to the Knights of Ni.

Switched Sexy Lumberjacks and Camelot as recommended. Works for me.

	07-11-2004 15:48									#27
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Concerning domestic work, I'd split the Worker stacks ass soon as possible. W lose valuable worker turns each time a worker enters an undoraded tile. To speed things up, single workers should do the roads, so that others can move in and start working the tiles without wasting a turn. I know it seems to be faster to just use a whole stack building roads, but it just isn't.

And another thing. We should Irrigate some Grassland tiles, so that our cities can grow and work even more of those Hills, Mountains and Forests.

Last edited by Modo44 on 07-11-2004 at 17:08

	17-12-2004 17:06									#28
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Alright, a couple turns passed, and the Workers in our northern territory are getting bored with Mountain Roading. Those Mountains might hole some resources, so we should be Roading all of them, but they will not show up for a veeeery long time. So, we should think about what to do with spare Workers.

We can Chop Forests at home, and then Mine, or Irrigate the tiles. This will allow cities to grow faster, and/or to work more Mountains. Also, we would get one-time boosts to building structures, which we need badly.

We can add Workers to cities, to grow them instantly. Not very useful at the moment, IMO, but possible.

We can move some south, to start preparing land for our new cities. We do plan to settle there, after eradicating the Monkeys, right?

We can Irrigate some tiles, to allow more growth for the cities, so they can work more Hills and Mountains.

Doh, all the sanity here is crushing. Good to know, we can use a Worker for the Holy Grail prank soon.

Last edited by Modo44 on 20-12-2004 at 20:42

	27-12-2004 19:11									#29
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We need a name for a fishing village north of Joyous Garde.

I think we need to consider planting new cities in former Monkey lands. We have 3 Settlers there at the moment. Do we wait until the war is long over (i.e. they have abandoned everything...), or do we start now? Whatever we do, we should start thinking about locations. We can really use more cities.

Updated F1 screen, 350 AD:

Attachment: ptwdg2 - monty python - 350 ad - domestic.jpg
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	07-02-2005 03:13									#30
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We have territory to settle into, so let's start planning cities. Attached is an image with the current layout of cities, borders, and existing improvements. Naturally, you can disregard the brown-ish things in the lower part.

Plan away!

Attachment: ptwdg2 - monty python - 390 ad - south terrain.jpg
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).